Primus Pilus Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Moonlapse and I were discussing something completely unrelated and the fact that today is "Good Friday" came up randomly in the conversation. Not only has the term 'Good' always struck me as rather odd considering the nature of the events (yes I udnerstand its good that he died for the sins of humanity, but it still strikes me as odd), but I realized that I've never actually bothered to learn the origins of the term 'Easter'. Lo and behold after a bit of googling... The True Origin of Easter Now I'm not surprised that the festival that came to be known as Easter was taken from a pagan event, whether it was the celebration of the Babylonian Ishtar and the resurrection of Tammuz or the Anglo-Saxon fertility rites of the goddess Eostre. What I am a little confused about regarding the Christian holiday is that, despite its adoption of the event of resurrection itself, its timing seems to be truly more coincidental than other deliberate usurpations of pagan events. If Good Friday or the death of Christ is associated with Passover and Easter was also always traditionally celebrated at about the same time, then the timing of the Christian ressurection coincides quite well with the other rituals. Despite the pagan origins of the story itself, the association of the ressurection of Christ with the festival of Easter seems to be something that happened as a matter of circumstance. Unlike Christmas which is so obviously and purposely associated with the timing of Saturnalia, is Easter an accident? Am I correct regarding the timing of Passover and Good Friday, or perhaps was the Easter festival deliberately moved to be in sync? Am I just missing something else entirely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princeps Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 There are conflicting views I think. Same with the solstice (though I've never understood this, given that it's dictated by the Sun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Am I correct regarding the timing of Passover and Good Friday, or perhaps was the Easter festival deliberately moved to be in sync? Am I just missing something else entirely? It was the celebration of Passover that brought Jesus to Jerusalem, and his reception (reportedly popular) probably got the ball rolling in having him arrested and crucified. So, the connection between the timing of Good Friday and Passover is almost causal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Am I correct regarding the timing of Passover and Good Friday, or perhaps was the Easter festival deliberately moved to be in sync? Am I just missing something else entirely? It was the celebration of Passover that brought Jesus to Jerusalem, and his reception (reportedly popular) probably got the ball rolling in having him arrested and crucified. So, the connection between the timing of Good Friday and Passover is almost causal. Indeed, so the concept of Easter as an usurped holiday is not entirely true in this case, despite the popularity of the pagan festival and its coincidental timing certainly helping to make the Christian version of things more readily acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Ratus Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I highly doubt that Easter "usurped" any Celtic pagan ceremonies. How would the Eastern Jews that formed Christianity know anything about the religions of the Gauls or that cold little Island in the North that had not even been conquered by Rome at the time of the Crucifixion? Furthermore, why would the cultures of the civilized East need to steal holidays from the barbaroi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I highly doubt that Easter "usurped" any Celtic pagan ceremonies. How would the Eastern Jews that formed Christianity know anything about the religions of the Gauls or that cold little Island in the North that had not even been conquered by Rome at the time of the Crucifixion? Furthermore, why would the cultures of the civilized East need to steal holidays from the barbaroi? It wasn't my original intention to suggest that the early christians usurped various pagan holidays but the later organized church adopted certain dates and practices in its efforts to expand the faith through familiarity. Also, some people probably simply accepted the new faith but as communities refused to give up their traditions. The arrival of the passover and the spring equinox just happen to be convenient and coincidental in the particular case of easter. Though clearly even today some pagan ceremony exists within the christian holiday (bunny and eggs as symbols of fertility, sunrise service originally intended as worship of the sun, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Did not one of the popes (Gregory) encourage Christian missionaries to use existing pagan sites for their churches, as people were used to going there, and thus would take to the new religeon more easily. I think that traditions regarding Eostre 9for example) might have been absorbed by "Easter" - including the name in the west - at a later stage. Eggs and bunnies at Easter have no specific Christian symbolism. The Christmas tree was brought in from German practice VERY recently (1850s) by Prince Albert. There have been 2006 Easters (or so) during which accretions can grow around it. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Does the "moveability " of the feast offer any clues? Easter is not restricted to certain defined calendrical dates , but rather within a range of possible dates. Certainly we have shallow roots visible to some festivals (in terms of active subsumming of a "Pagan" festival), Lughansa /Harvest Festival certainly fits Phil's suggestion regarding Pope Gregory. Which immediatley gives me an excuse to unleash some Celtic recipes:Colcannon shows that the Hibernii wouldnt have suffered lead poisoning:- http://www.celticspirit.org/lughnasadh.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Which immediatley gives me an excuse to unleash some Celtic recipes:Colcannon shows that the Hibernii wouldnt have suffered lead poisoning:-http://www.celticspirit.org/lughnasadh.htm But! One can make Colcannon with kale! Unless, of course, kale works as well as cabbage in such plumberous issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Any brassica My Fair Lady! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Any brassica My Fair Lady! Yay! One of my favorite vegetable groups! No lead poisoning for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Does the "moveability " of the feast offer any clues? Easter is not restricted to certain defined calendrical dates , but rather within a range of possible dates. But surely Easter IS "fixed" in a sense. It is linked to the Jewish Passover which is at a certain full moon. It may not be a specific DAY each year (like Christmas) but it is certainly not "random". Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tflex Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 (edited) Moonlapse and I were discussing something completely unrelated and the fact that today is "Good Friday" came up randomly in the conversation. Not only has the term 'Good' always struck me as rather odd considering the nature of the events (yes I udnerstand its good that he died for the sins of humanity, but it still strikes me as odd), but I realized that I've never actually bothered to learn the origins of the term 'Easter'. Lo and behold after a bit of googling... The True Origin of Easter Now I'm not surprised that the festival that came to be known as Easter was taken from a pagan event, whether it was the celebration of the Babylonian Ishtar and the resurrection of Tammuz or the Anglo-Saxon fertility rites of the goddess Eostre. What I am a little confused about regarding the Christian holiday is that, despite its adoption of the event of resurrection itself, its timing seems to be truly more coincidental than other deliberate usurpations of pagan events. If Good Friday or the death of Christ is associated with Passover and Easter was also always traditionally celebrated at about the same time, then the timing of the Christian ressurection coincides quite well with the other rituals. Despite the pagan origins of the story itself, the association of the ressurection of Christ with the festival of Easter seems to be something that happened as a matter of circumstance. Unlike Christmas which is so obviously and purposely associated with the timing of Saturnalia, is Easter an accident? Am I correct regarding the timing of Passover and Good Friday, or perhaps was the Easter festival deliberately moved to be in sync? Am I just missing something else entirely? Would they still coincide using the biblical solar calendar. Also, the bible considers Jesus the passover Lamb, and thats what's suppose to be celebrated; instead easter is celebrated, you know with the rabbit & egg symbolism, quick as a bunny is an asset in those mass orgies. As a christian it's truly sad to see such a holy day be polluted this way. The Bible mentions Ishtar in the old testament in a negative light, as a pagan goddess. Edited October 14, 2006 by tflex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Potters House Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 (edited) I recently finished this article: Why we should not Passover Easter By Nick Sayers And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. Acts 12:3-4 KJV The Dominant strength of English English has risen to become the dominant world language. Because most Christianized nations use English as their chief means of communication, for English speaking believers, it is crucial to understand the language accurately ourselves, before presenting to foreigners vaguely constructed etymologies, particularly when expounding the word of God. Many cults, which prefer wives fables than the word of God, despise Easter believing it to be a Christianized pagan festival of the spring goddess Ishtar. Many good Christians too, feel obligated to their conscience to reject celebrating Easter because they see it to be based on idolatry and paganism. The traditions which have been added to Easter have not helped either. Most English speaking people associate chocolate eggs and rabbits with Easter as much as the celebration of Christ Edited December 15, 2006 by Potters House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted December 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 That's impressive from a language perspective, but it does nothing to address the customs of the vernal equinox (and perhaps other traditions). There is a bastardization of ancient rituals within the christian resurrection event regardless of the origin of the word "Easter" itself. Simply identifying the word Easter as a Anglo-Saxonic derivative of resurrection (which I believe you do quite convincingly, though I am not a linguist) does not discredit the notion of pre-existing resurrection stories and/or related rituals in various mythos. Is it not also completely possible that the lesser Latinized Germanic tongues would use a word that corresponds to the goddess Eostre (whichever) that could pre-date the influence of Passover/Christian resurrection on their language culture? It seems to me that it is entirely possible that Easter is both a Christian and Pagan event, that truly falls within the same general time frame: Christian resurrection dating from Passover and Pagan Resurrection dating from the Vernal Equinox, the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, eastern Ishtar or what have you. In a sense, Anglicized Easter is pagan in language origin where the Romanticized/Latin and Greek language bases "Pesach, Pascha, etc." are Hebrew in origin. I may be getting over my head here on the language front, so anyone feel free to correct my logic at any point. [edit] After re-reading my reply, please allow me a clarification. What I mean to suggest is that the Germanic word Easter would not have developed if the origin of the holiday were purely Judaeo-Christian. At it's root it may have meant resurrection but it developed independently of the rest of Europe and seems very likely based on Pagan mythos . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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