polytheistic influence on Xtian saints?

[Nephele]

Gaius Octavius, I'm talking about the floral calendar which is derived from the Catholic Calendar of Saint's Feast Days. Obviously no more than 365 plants attributed to no more than 365 saints taken from the Catholic Calendar were included.

 

-- Nephele

[Gaius Octavius]

Gaius Octavius, I'm talking about the floral calendar which is derived from the Catholic Calendar of Saint's Feast Days. Obviously no more than 365 plants attributed to no more than 365 saints taken from the Catholic Calendar were included.

 

-- Nephele

 

Ergo, proof positive!

[Nephele]

Ergo, proof positive!

 

Proof of what? That your Tsar Nicholas II wasn't a saint back in those centuries when folklore emerged from both pagan practices and the Catholic Church? Well, d'uh.

 

-- Nephele

[Pertinax]

If one can purchase a facsimilie of the original Culpepper's Herbal , all the herbs have a definitive plant/deity relationship which harks directly to the pagan world, for example our old friends Henbane and Nightshade are "saturnian" (well called id say). A titular deity is always named as presiding over the behaviour of the plant, this information was gradually expunged from the revised editions. Interestingly one can see more of the Anglo-Saxon world than a direct link to the classical world, though an undertone of antiquity is present. I have several variants of the texts , but all are incomplete in some way (though physically the work is very large), I was re-checking a particular variant the other day (badly illustrated , but with the best surviving "astrological" exposition). Culpepper was totally immersed in the spiritual qualities of the plants and it is unfortunate that we cannot see his whole work as he sought to present it, regardless that we may consider it "unscientific", we see the "science" of the day clearly spelt out.

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html

 

here is the mid-thirties re-issue for the "modern" .These volumes are straightforward botanical texts.

[Gaius Octavius]

My Lord :notworthy: and Sinnerella :wub: , is there a saint associated with poisons?

[Pertinax]

My Lord :notworthy: and Sinnerella :wub: , is there a saint associated with poisons?

Saturn is , as I mention , associated with those plants that induce drowsiness and (possibly) melancholia, but several deities have "dangerous" plants associated with them , for instance some herbs associated with Venus are not lightweight infusions for young lovers , rather they suggest potions for unrequited and disturbingly obsessive desire and lustfulness.

 

This is insultingly simplistic , but gives you an idea of an ancient science/religiosity/superstition melding:

http://www.anniesremedy.com/astrology.php

 

One can see the obvious relationships-Ladies Mantle is still used to get a clean purge of the endemetrium , and we see it under Venus in a direct sexual role .Chickweed, used for skin problems (being awash with vitamin C in an ingestible external form) under the cooling Lunar influence. This is just a hint of a lost world view .Ive left the text I need to quote from at work, so ill be back to you on the nature of poisons versus sympathetic magic.

 

Christian Saints are not my forte...

[Nephele]

My Lord :notworthy: and Sinnerella :wub: , is there a saint associated with poisons?

 

 

St. Atropina. (Nah, but I love the name.)

 

 

Pertinax, I'm glad you brought up Culpeper. Here's a link where you can find a listing of many of Culpeper's herbs with their planetary influences: Culpeper's Herbs

 

Culpeper no doubt based a lot of his ideas about plants and their planetary/deity assignments on much of the folklore that preceded him. St. John's wort, as you'll see in the list linked above, is governed by the sun. This herb was assigned by the Catholic Church to St. John the Baptist.

 

Quoting from Hilderic Friend's Flowers and Flower Lore (originally published in 1884):

 

"...for St. John is as intimately mixed up with heathenism as we found the Virgin to be; he has, in fact, taken a very similar position in relation to the old heathen gods as Mary took in relation to the goddesses. The Virgin...succeeded Freyja in the 'calendar' of Northern flowers. The two 'white' gods of Valhalla -- Baldur and Heimdal -- both of whom represent the sun, and whose peculiar epithet referred to the dazzling brightness of sunlight, were replaced in a similar manner by St. John the Baptist, whose midsummer festival is marked all over Europe by so many remains of solar worship... Flowers with large sun-shaped discs, either white or golden-yellow, were dedicated to Baldur, as the sun-god; and it was in this manner that the Hypericum became the peculiar property of St. John..."

 

-- Nephele

[Jasminia]

An excellent read on saint veneration in late antiquity is Peter Brown's "Cult of the Saints".

[Gaius Octavius]

An excellent read on saint veneration in late antiquity is Peter Brown's "Cult of the Saints".

 

Peter should get it right - Cults of the Saints.

[Ursus]

An excellent read on saint veneration in late antiquity is Peter Brown's "Cult of the Saints".

 

Thank you for the reference, Jasminia. I've been contemplating some research into Catholicism.

[Gaius Octavius]

An excellent read on saint veneration in late antiquity is Peter Brown's "Cult of the Saints".

 

Thank you for the reference, Jasminia. I've been contemplating some research into Catholicism.

 

You might start with Sts Thomas and Augustine.

[Jasminia]

An excellent read on saint veneration in late antiquity is Peter Brown's "Cult of the Saints".

 

Thank you for the reference, Jasminia. I've been contemplating some research into Catholicism.

 

You might start with Sts Thomas and Augustine.

 

Or earlier, with Eusebius.

[Ursus]

I was looking more along the lines of modern research, not primary sources which can be rather biased when it comes to this subject. Anyway, don't let me derail this discussion with talk of my possible research.

[Gaius Octavius]

Ursus, as you might have observed, I question and am very seldom dogmatic unless I am sure. You don't know what religion, if any, I hold to. What I am trying to say is to start with the R.C. side. G.K. Chesterton was a Protestant who converted to Roman Catholicism. Try him first.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Having been educated in Catholic schools most of my life, I think it would be a mistake to assume that Catholics worships saints as deities. They certainly ask for their intercession but I don't remember that they actually pray directly to them the way they pray to Jesus and Mary.

The veneration of Mary as a divine mother definitely indicates influences from the Isis cult though. Even the terminology is the same - Stella Maris, Queen of Heaven, Mother of god, etc. This is something that has no parallel in the Orthodox Church or even the earlier Gnostic beliefs of the Eastern Mediterranean.