Germanicus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 What was the Latin word for these products? Cannabis? I don't know, but suspect it would have been the word for Hemp - "cannabinum" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Around 70AD Dioscorides speaks of the Romans using Cannabis seed or it's derivatives as a medical treatment. In 170AD Galen, Physician to Marcus Aurelius, Verus, Commodus and Septimus Severus discusses the psycho active properties of Cannabis seed cakes. What was the Latin word for these products? Cannabis? Cannabis seed (as I noted in /Food in the Ancient World from A to Z/) was chewed after dinner as a sexual sedative. I think Dioscorides, among others, confirms this. Why? you may ask. Because the goings on at Greek and Roman banquets were sometimes rather exciting, and you might attend a banquet at a time when (because of a vow, or in preparation for a religious initiation, etc.) you were compelled to abstain from sex. The word kannabis is first recorded in Greek; cannabis in Latin. It means the hemp plant and its products. Hence cannabinum = 'made of hemp, hempen'. Hence also many words in modern languages, e.g. French chanvre 'hemp' and canevas 'canvas'; English 'canvas'. It's a very useful plant ... In regards to the tox study on the mummies, I found one of the scholarly articles on the subject: American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies: A Review of the Evidence This one surprised me, I must say. If I gather correctly, it's a student paper, not a refereed academic article, but it's impressive. I have been interested myself in long-distance transport of medicinal herbs in prehistoric times. It's a very difficult area to research in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 @PertinaxMy source is the book from the swede Christian Albrecht, Kulinarium Antike. In this book he sites the Knowledge of the Ancient world on Mushrooms. Sources and refferences are being made from the Greeks: Theophrastus of Eresos, Nikander and (on the topic hallucinogens) Dioskurides . And from the Romans: Cornelius Celsus and Plinius. I dont know an english book, but any english book that states texts and works of one of these 5 (espescially Dioskurides and Celsus) must contain info about the use of mushrooms in the ancient times. Like Pertinax, I want more help on this. Dioscorides seems to have very little about mushrooms and nothing on hallucinogenic effects. Likewise Theophrastus. Celsus does not seem to mention them at all. Pliny does have a passage about them (22.92-99), well worth reading, but not a word about hallucinogens. I still have to check Nicander, but on present evidence I think this Christian Albrecht was high on something if he wrote about ancient Romans using hallucinogenic mushgrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) A little on the possible origin of substances identified in the forensic exploration of human remains. Andrew Pengelly's " Constituents of Medicinal Plants" is a highly specialised organic chemistry /herbal materia medica crossover work, it backs up the basic (but by no means simple) Potters Cyclopedia of Botanical Preparations (Wren) . If in doubt I start with these two volumes to pin down elusive chemical relationships within and between plants. Tropane Alkoloids are very complex molecular structures, containing pyrrolidine and piperdine (benzene) ring structures from the precursors ornithine and phenylalanine (these latter two names may be familiar).Isolleucine and acetates play a role in the biosynthesis of tropane structures. Medicinal alkaloids tend to be from the Solanaceae family , apart from cocaine from the Erythroxylaceae . The major alkoloids are hyoscamine and hyoscine (scopolamine). These alkoloids occur in 22 genera of Solonaceae including Atropa belladonna, Datura strammonium , Hyoscyamus niger, Mandragora officianarum and Dubiosa myoporides. The list I have just given is of course a medicine chest for the Egyptian/Greek/ Roman physician -any patient undergoing surgery, pain alleviation, sedation would be exposed to these items. Cocaine is a methyl ester of benzoylegonine and as such is a very unstable as a chemical residue. The Roman foodstuff ,the humble Lupin, is also a major potential source of alkaloids. so residues of cocaine? possible but statistically tremendously unlikely, nicotine -plausible but from degradation of the alkaloids listed above, given the universal use of these substances as ancient (and modern) medicines. I am not saying narcotics were not used , what I am saying is -some things look narcotic like (and are but not recreationally ) and leave a trace that appears to be another narcotic. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but evidence of a chemical is only evidence of a series of possible causations. Edited March 30, 2006 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 The Roman foodstuff ,the humble Lupin, is also a major potential source of alkaloids. Pliny says the smoke of Lupines kills gnats... :bag: Very nice explaination of the alkaloids Pertinax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 The Roman foodstuff ,the humble Lupin, is also a major potential source of alkaloids. Pliny says the smoke of Lupines kills gnats... :bag: Very nice explaination of the alkaloids Pertinax. Lupin seeds conserved in vinegar can be nice as an occasional alternative to table olives. You get them at markets round here, grown in southern italy I think. I never noticed any hallucinations -- I'll have another try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) and I should have said....if you dont cook it quite thoroughly! Same as the Arum Maculatum. Try harder with more lupins. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...&cmd=si&img=409 Edited March 31, 2006 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 AD and Germanicus refer to the Cannabaciae earlier in the thread. As AD very correctly states the impregnated cakes were used to supress sexual desire in a very immanent sense, though the use of Vitex Agnus Castus was also known as an antaphrodisiac for men and a promoter of menstrual comfort for women. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...&cmd=si&img=336 Rue (link above) was also used to prevent amorous advances after childbirth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Ive been posting some rather grim "thread to gallery links" for combat medicine equipment. All the equipment is re-created from actual finds, though in many cases exact blade shape is questionable with some knives/scalpels .Some knives are of an unknown usage and may actually have been blunt with a "putty" spatulate blade, possibly for the admixture of medicinal compounds.However some more "everyday" items will be on show soon. The LEG II AUG will be nearby again next week and the surgeon has said he will hopefully produce his cataract instruments and arterial clamps for our inspection, likewise some items related to the "prevention of fertile congress" . In the medicine chest we have: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=899 l-r top row. bandages. charcoal for digestive aid (neutralising acid and prevention of the flux).unknown middle : unknown.mandragoram (anasthesia) dandelion root ( urinary tonic) bottom row: lavender (for sterile wash) . ginger root (nausea) .clove (teeth/gums) and ive forgotten the last one!But ill update soon.Elsewhere in his equipment he carried opiates and henbane to deal with intense pain. The skull to the right is a reconstruction of some dental work found at a grave site, a lead tooth has been pinned into the gum whilst still hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 The skull to the right is a reconstruction of some dental work found at a grave site, a lead tooth has been pinned into the gum whilst still hot ohmy.gif oh, ow....jeez...wouldn't that cause infection or something? >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 The skull to the right is a reconstruction of some dental work found at a grave site, a lead tooth has been pinned into the gum whilst still hot ohmy.gif oh, ow....jeez...wouldn't that cause infection or something? >.< Apparently not! Due to the searing heat and instant cauterisation of the wound site. The original find was examined and the person involved lived for some reasonable period after the surgery.I suppose its not too far removed from having titanium pillars implanted in the jaw, they take ages and cost a lot. Usually, I admit you do get at least a little anaesthesia as well . I hope to have a further dental report soon , as the banding and cramping of teeth with amalgam metals was undertaken. Lots of off site uploads in the usual place:- http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4214 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Oh, I can't imagine. I know how sensitive my teeth are sometimes to heat and cold.... Did they at least use some anesthesia or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Oh, I can't imagine. I know how sensitive my teeth are sometimes to heat and cold.... Did they at least use some anesthesia or something? That I will find out for you. Cruse (Roman Medicine) relates that although Roman teeth were more heavily worn than our own, ( pulses and quality cereals in the diet) the general standard of cariousness/cavities was considerably less .No sweeteners of course , only honey.Also that where dental repairs have been carried out they evinced a good standard, not that im suggesting widespread dentisitry (but who knows-tooth pain is appalling and the Ethnographic Pitt-River's museum in Oxford is full of "native" dental equipment . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Oh, I can't imagine. I know how sensitive my teeth are sometimes to heat and cold.... Did they at least use some anesthesia or something? Can't remember if it has already been said above: there was really no reliable anaesthetic. An analgesic helps instead, and the handiest analgesic for Roman doctors was opium. That's why poppies were a valuable resource. Cato (On Farming) recommends you to sow poppies where you had a bonfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Valerius Scerio Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 What was the Latin word for these products? Cannabis? Yes. Also, Cannabum. Both from the Greek κανναβις or κανναβος, of Semitic origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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