Augustus's Later Years

[znra251]

the image of augustus was fairly static from around the 20's BC because it was not meant to be a physical representation of Octavian/Augustus. It is an idealised face which represents virtues and divine destiny to rule. compare the earlier sculptures of Augustus in the Alexander pose with those of him later and the decline of physical realism can be noted

[coolgolfer]

Now, given that emperor portraits were typically based on the emperor's likeness at the time of attaining imperium, what should we make of the fact that Livia's portrait is of a woman much older than Augustus?

 

That's a good question. But what your seeing is a portrait of Livia at the time it was created. Livia back in her younger years was never really in the spot light as Augustus was. Livia in her older years is when she became more in the spot light. unfortunately it was a time when she was an older women.

 

Even so, if you really think about it for a moment. Roman Culture or society was a very male driven society and culture.

[phil25]

I'm quite struck by two things in skimming this discussion:

 

a).how many of the comments are based on a subjective response to the sculptures;

 

b. that the frame of reference is to responses today and not to what we know of perceptions in Roman times.

 

I was also amused by the comment (I hope meant jokingly) that livia might have been having a bad day - with the implication that any particular portrait was scuplted from life.

 

Surely any discussion of meaning/image needs to begin with what we know of late republican/early imperial iconocraphy and its use; look at changes to Octavian/Augustus' specific iconography (AND THE GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION OF SCULPTURES); and then consider the likely purpose of that work - cult statue in a temple; public or private work; religious or political context (Ara pacis reliefs aimed to give a different impression to (say) the Prima Porta statue or the Meroe bronze head); is the likely dating in the lifetime or after the death of the individual represented; and did it have an indoor or outdoor setting; was it placed high or low; what lighting would have struck it?

 

All these things impact on a carving, and I would suggest that what looks, close up, as an "old" Livia, might have given a different impression if seen in strong sunlight/or a gloomy temple interior. Look at the colossal statue of Domitian from Turkey which appears grotesquely distorted close up in the museum, but was intended to be seen from one specific angle and distance. Photographs and museum displays can lie and mislead!!

 

To my mind, Roman sculpture had only a tangential relationship to its subject, and most carvers would never have seen the original. If Augustus had been a hunchbacked dwarf, there is no reason to assume that he might not have been shown as he is - Gaius got a full head of hair after all!!

 

I seem to recall that 30 or so years ago there was a particular bust that was consistently described as "young Octavian" - one of my university tutors had a copy which he used to bring in to preside over seminars on the "interstate politics of the ancient world"!! Detailed study of the hair, the way the curls fall on the forehead, and comparison with other statuary, eventually showed that the bust was of either Gaius of Lucius, not of the princeps at any age.

 

So I suggest we need to look carefully at whether the identification of the individual is correct - remember, other or later members of the imperial house might have modelled themselves deliberately on a famous forebear.

 

Also, I would advise against reading character into any ancient sculpture (pace Coleen McCullough) as the faces are made up of individual elements designed to be reproduced by other sculptors easily and at long distances (say in Aphrodisias, Turkey) - distortion of a different type might creep in, in the process of reducing features to relationships of distance and mass and groupings of hair.

 

Lastly, don't forget that many ancient sculptures were originally painted, in fairly dramatic colours, which again would have changed perceptions at the time.

 

Sorry this rambles a bit, it's early morning.

 

Phil

 

edited to remove an unwanted smilie

Edited May 13, 2006 by phil25