Would Augustus Have Persecuted Christians?

[Emperor Goblinus]

If Christians had been around in the time of Augustus, do you think that he would have supported the persecution of them?

[Ursus]

Most likely. If he didn't care much for the effect of Egyptian cults on traditional Roman society, he would not have tolerated the Christian perspective.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Depends on how much influence the Christians have and their numbers. If it was substantial, Augustus would wisely pursue political relations instead of persecution.

[Segestan]

Yes; I too think Augustus would Not have tolerated the Christian Ideas. Augustus was an High Preist in the Imperial Cult, and he saw himself as a Savior , the Messiah of mankind, and a direct order of Deity of the Gods of Rome, and ruled as such with Romes destiny placed in his will and hands. Christ in his Messianic role , displayed by him, as the savior of mankind , being sent by his Fathers Will, was therefore by default, a direct threat to the Imperor order of Emperor God's. The crucifixion of Christ on the cross at Calvary Hill was in many respects, a copy of Alexander the Greats act of vengence on the occupants of Tyre after his siege. He had all the peoples crucified on the cross. One of the low points in Alexanders conquest.

However, I should add ; Alexander went on to Jerusalem to give great tribute and honor to the Jews as he saw the High preist of the temple as a messehger of the Gods as he. He gave the jews many special threatments in paying tribute to him that others did not recieve.

 

regards,

[roman wargamer]

If Christians had been around in the time of Augustus, do you think that he would have supported the persecution of them? Emperor Goblinus

 

original christian was destined to be persecuted from beginning to end.... and ends of the world.

 

it is been written and prophesied in lowly Greek Dialect "Bible." ( The New Testament )

 

but they are not yet around at that time, so no one can really tell.

[Pantagathus]

Depends on how much influence the Christians have and their numbers. If it was substantial, Augustus would wisely pursue political relations instead of persecution.

 

Depends on what you mean by "pursuing political relations"... Only if you mean making the cult his 'bitches' per se for his own political gain. Augustus was more savvy than one who would resort to persecution of a strong cult and stronger than one who would seek conciliatory overtures. Think of what he did to hobble the influence of the Druids and to convert their power to his own.

 

He changed the yearly assembly to a place of his choosing and made them meet at a monument dedicated to him thereby equating himself with Lugh.

 

So, I guess my answer is no Augustus would not have persecuted Christians. He would have found some way to bring them back into the fold of Roman religion without them realizing it.

[Northern Neil]

It depends. If the Christians made a nuisance of themselves and set out to deliberately flout Roman Law in order to be martyred, then yes, he would have sought elimination of what he saw as a group of criminal fanatics. Later Christian emperors would no doubt state that this was a persecution, and that Augustus executed them simply for their beliefs. They would then use this as a pretext for burning pagans and wrecking their temples.

 

Hold on a sec... isn't this what happened with the actual persecutions?

Edited March 21, 2006 by Northern Neil

[Emperor Goblinus]

If Christians had been around in the time of Augustus, do you think that he would have supported the persecution of them? Emperor Goblinus

 

I don't think so. One hallmark of Augustus' career was to try to appear not to be a tyrant, and to look as constitutional as possible. Arresting and killing people simply for their religious beliefs would not have helped his case in trying to just be the "First Citizen."

[Primus Pilus]

If Christians had been around in the time of Augustus, do you think that he would have supported the persecution of them? Emperor Goblinus

 

I don't think so. One hallmark of Augustus' career was to try to appear not to be a tyrant, and to look as constitutional as possible. Arresting and killing people simply for their religious beliefs would not have helped his case in trying to just be the "First Citizen."

 

An excellent point. While we clearly know what Augustus was, and even his contemporaries knew what Augustus was, he was still very careful and very concerned with playing the charade. Now I don't know if this would've necessarily helped the Christians if public sentiment was widely against them though.

[Ursus]

I'd say the crucial point though is that Augustus positioned himself as the defender of Roman tradition. To the extent Christianity, or at least certain elements of it, came across as a virulent counter-culture cult, some token crackdowns on the Christians would come across more as being a champion of order rather a cruel tyrant.

[Julia C]

Why? He certainly didn't crack down on the Jews, did he? They were just as vigourous in sticking to their own single God and denouncing the rest as false.

 

Perhaps the Christians were bigger on converting others, but I doubt he would be foolish enough to kill members of a religion so willing to embrace matyrdom.

[Primus Pilus]

[quote name='Julia C

[Julia C]

Yeah. We'd really need to fill in one of the variables... since it wasn't around then, it's hard to speculate. :-(

[sullafelix]

I think we are fiorgetting something here guys! Christians were persecuted for two main reasons, the lesser of which was an unfortunate misunderstanding about the communion leading to accusations of cannibalism and the second which is much more important here is that Christians could not swear their oath of loyalty to the emperor. Augustus claimed divine lineage the Christians would have had to beg to differ on that one. the problem is that Christianity is an exclusive religion, not polytheistic and therefore posed a threat to the stability of the empire. Augustus was, if I remember rightly on this one, none to fond of threats to the stability of the empire.

 

[znra251]

I think we are fiorgetting something here guys! Christians were persecuted for two main reasons, the lesser of which was an unfortunate misunderstanding about the communion leading to accusations of cannibalism and the second which is much more important here is that Christians could not swear their oath of loyalty to the emperor. Augustus claimed divine lineage the Christians would have had to beg to differ on that one. the problem is that Christianity is an exclusive religion, not polytheistic and therefore posed a threat to the stability of the empire. Augustus was, if I remember rightly on this one, none to fond of threats to the stability of the empire.

 

 

i would disagree with this, because although augustus was certainly not have persecuted christians.

 

Imperial led persecutions are a product of a particular set of circumstances in the mid 3rd century, which lead under the emperor Decius to organised persecutions (cf. J.Rives, The Decree of Decius and the Religion of Empire JRS 1999). Thus, their inability to swear an oath to the emperor would not have been a problem as this was not required until this point. (Augustus' oath prior to actium lacks religious content) and at no point during his reign were any religious activities required towards the emperor, although many were offered.

 

As for this issue of christianity being a threat because it was an exclusive religion this has some truth but one must then ask why the jews escaped persecution on the same scale. Also, this is really a point about personal feeling, refered to in latin as pietas. This inward feeling towards religions is replaced in the middle of the third century by a different idea of religion, focused on outward conformity, in latin religio

 

as a result of this shift their is a perceptable fear that the failure to properly observe cult practice could lead to harm which was not present in the Augustan period. (really a development from caracalla's grant of citizenship.) Under Augustus, with the prevailing attitude of pietas the comunity would not have become so likely to play ball with persecutions and as such they would have to be directed for a more personal reason, note nero and the fire!

 

i would say that under augustus the idea of persecuting christians would appear irrelevant, after all, these people were not citizens, they could not harm the pax deorum and as such were surely pointless (from a Roman perspective)

 

An interesting question would be whether Augustus in Decius' shoes would have launched persecutions? would he have seen more subtle ways to break a potential Persian 3rd column with the christians