Byzantine Imperial Women

[Aphrodite]

What do think was different about Byzantine culture, from other ancient cultures, that allowed women such as Theodora to hold postions of imperial power?

[Emperor Goblinus]

Excellent question. I'm not so sure if it was the culture itself which allowed a few women to become really powerful, but the woman themselves and the circumstances they were in. Women like Theodora and Irene were extremely powerful personalities and when they wanted something, they got it. With Irene, she was extremely brutal in keeping her power. Many people resented her power, and the pope refused to recoqnize her imperial influence in the West, and may have been one of the reasons behind the crowning of Charlemagne as the western emperor. She was eventually overthrown and replaced by Constantine V(?). As for Theodora, her personality, tenacity, and influence over Justinian allowed her to become influential, if not ruler in her own right. Another famous Byzantine imperial woman that comes to mind in Zoe, who I think did rule the empire for some time, but I know little about her.

So I think it was more the women themselves, rather than the culture which generally stressed female subservience, that allowed people like Theodora, Irene, and Zoe to become so powerful. Also, you must realize that all of these women were royalty, if not born royalty in the case Theodora who had humble beginnings, but being part of the royal family automatically bestowed a great deal of power upon them, and there have been many royal women throughout history beyond Byzantium that have become very influential in their own kingdoms and empires. The case of the Byzantine empresses is not necessarily unique when it comes to royal women in general. For the everyday, humble Byzantine woman, they were strictly subservient to their husbands, like probably almost all medieval women, and could only operate within their own small, limited sphere of life designated to them by society. The famous Byzantine women were powerful nobles and royalty, and were either born with or married with, the empire at their fingertips.

[Tobias]

I daresay it is mainly due to the state of Europe at the time, and the train of thought of many of the other nations of Europe at the time. During the dark times following the fall of the West, the infrastructure, education etc also fell by the wayside in the areas of the former Roman Empire. Because of the uncertainty, barbarity and the violence, It fell basically to the primitive idea of the domination of the strongest and fittest. As women were generally not as physically strong as men, they lost any standing and importance they may have had in Roman times, and were usually dominated and of less value then men, except in the centres of education, which was mainly the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine centres generally preserved the Hellenistic ideals and the writings of the past, which allowed Byzantine women more of a chance to gain higher education and high status. As well, the upper echelons of men of the Byzantine Empire had higher status and power than most other nations in Europe at the time, and if a beautiful, ambitious and learned woman such as Theodora wished to go far, then an available option was to marry an influential Byzantine elite.

Edited March 18, 2006 by Tobias

[Emperor Goblinus]

Although women did have a significant status in the ancient world in Sparta, and women did have some rights in imperial Rome, the old Hellenic world put a huge emphasis on female subordination. Then again, I'm not an expert so I maybe wrong. The Germanic tribes that swamped the West were usually male run, but in a few of them, couldn't so of the women gain high status, and in a few, didn't the women actually fight in battle alongside their men? Again, I'm not an expert and maybe wrong.

[Neos Dionysos]

What do think was different about Byzantine culture, from other ancient cultures, that allowed women such as Theodora to hold postions of imperial power?

 

I don't think it was Byzantine culture specifically, because Hellenic women in royalty for the most part played very influencial roles... names that come to mind are Olympias, Adea Eurdike, Arsinoe, Cleopatra VII, etc. Also there were a similar number of very influential Roman women, Livia, Agrippina the Elder/Younger, Pulcheria, Galla Placidia, Aelia Eudoxia and then into Byzantine with Theodora (wife of Justinian), Theodora, (wife of Theophilus), Zoe, Theodora, (daughter of Constantine VIII), Theophano, Irene and Zoe Karvounopsina.

[Aphrodite]

Since first posting this i have found out more about women in positions of power, and read somwhere that alexander the great was influenced by the elevated postions of persian queens, so setting the trend!

 

His mother was allowd to wear a special robe.

[AEGYPTUS]

I have been reading a book about Boudica and her people the (Eceni). According to what the author has written this tribe preferred Women as leaders to men. The Eceni were not unique in this either in Ancient Briton. They had many female warriors as well as males! So it was not unheard of for women to lead hordes of warriors on the fields of Ancient Briton. I have found the book I got the information from fascinating so far!!

 

I know a bit of topic but I only wrote this to prove the point that the Byzantines were not unique in having powerful female rulers. Another Example would be Egypt With Regent Nefertiti and Queen Hatshepsut and of course Cleopatra

Edited May 8, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[Kosmo]

I remember something about power struggles in the kingdoms of merovigians franks in which queens played an important part. Have to check it.

I don't think that we could find an era when high placed women did not played a major role in Europe. Even slaves that made it to the harem of the ottoman sultans sometimes became powerfull (like the ukrainean Roxellena).

[Primus Pilus]

I have been reading a book about Boudica and her people the (Eceni). According to what the author has written this tribe preferred Women as leaders to men. The Eceni were not unique in this either in Ancient Briton. They had many female warriors as well as males! So it was not unheard of for women to lead hordes of warriors on the fields of Ancient Briton. I have found the book I got the information from fascinating so far!!

 

Other than Boudica herself is there actually any evidence of the Iceni preferring women rulers? Considering that our knowledge of Britannic tribal affairs is severely limited I'd be interested in seeing the evidence to support the conclusions. Other than Antedios (during the Claudian invasion) and Prasutagus (husband of Boudica) the list of rulers is rather sparse (here's a few: http://romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_tribe_iceni.htm).

 

What book is this you are referring to?

[AEGYPTUS]

The author does not say where she gets her facts reom however does metion the people who helped her write the book Dr. Gilly Carr,Dr. Jon Coe do not know if the mean anything to anyone but there the only things I could find. The book is just called Boudica. I will try and find out more.

Edited May 8, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[Primus Pilus]

The author does not say where she gets her facts reom however does metion the people who helped her write the book Dr. Gilly Carr,Dr. Jon Coe do not know if the mean anything to anyone but there the only things I could find. The book is just called Boudica. I will try and find out more.

 

Is this the novel by Manda Scott?

[AEGYPTUS]

yep I think so.

[Ursus]

Although women did have a significant status in the ancient world in Sparta, and women did have some rights in imperial Rome, the old Hellenic world put a huge emphasis on female subordination. Then again, I'm not an expert so I maybe wrong. The Germanic tribes that swamped the West were usually male run, but in a few of them, couldn't so of the women gain high status, and in a few, didn't the women actually fight in battle alongside their men? Again, I'm not an expert and maybe wrong.

 

 

The women of the Germanic and Celtic tribes did have a relatively better station in life than in most of Greek culture. And, yes, female warriors of those tribes are attested to by classical authors (but we must allow for some exaggeration or misinterpretation in those accounts).

[Neos Dionysos]

The author does not say where she gets her facts reom however does metion the people who helped her write the book Dr. Gilly Carr,Dr. Jon Coe do not know if the mean anything to anyone but there the only things I could find. The book is just called Boudica. I will try and find out more.

 

Is this the novel by Manda Scott?

 

 

yep I think so.

 

I don't think you can really take what's in that book as fact since it's a novel and while there are foundations to the facts used there is also a lot of liberation taken in novels to increase the readibilty and interest of the material.

[AEGYPTUS]

Yeah I know but I read some stuff at the end of the book were she got her base for the novel I might try reading some of those.