What Happened To The Greeks...

[Caius Maxentius]

Actually, my question is even broader -- what happened to the peoples of Thrace, Illyricum and Greece after the Slavic and Bulgar migrations? Maps show the Slavs penetrating right onto the Peloponnese. I also read once that the "ethnic" Greeks in modern Greece (though the language survived) demographically declined during the Middle Ages and were largely supplanted by the Slavs. Does anyone know if this is true?

 

Were the existing populations (pre-500AD) of the Balkans and Achaean penninsula killed off, did they flee, did they merge with the migrating populations?

[Favonius Cornelius]

killed off, did they flee, did they merge with the migrating populations

 

I believe all of the above. In the islands and costal areas you had hold-outs I believe, and even in areas where the slavs push into they still lived in peace with them. But then yes surely some were killed, and others mixed in with those living with them, or the women at least taken.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

So are modern Greeks today still have pure bloodlines for such a proud race?

[Andrew Dalby]

So are modern Greeks today still have pure bloodlines for such a proud race?

When I was at school and university, I heard classics teachers who said 'No! The ancient Greeks have no descendants in Greece! The modern lot are all Romans, Slavs and Turks!'

When I first visited Greece, I saw people who could have been mistaken for Socrates, Herodotus and any other ancient figure you may have seen. And, yes, the language carried right on through all these conquests and invasions. I learned from this and other observations that teachers talk nonsense some of the time.

The real answer is that none of us have pure bloodlines, whatever bloodlines may be, but the modern Greeks are as closely related to their ancient compatriots as anyone else is.

[Segestan]

There was no Slav migration. Most of the peoples living in the Balkans are of the same stock they have always been. What changed was the Geo-political make-up of the region after the Fall of Alexanders Macedonian Kingdom. Rome renamed the whole region as provincial territories after the defeat of Perseus. The modern day version of a slavic migration into Greece is pure fiction. The Greek Empire of pre1912 along with Bulgaria occupied Macedonia from the arrest of the Ottoman Empire. Albania is a what is left of the culture of Ottoman Turks. THe glorious histories of Greece are for the most part rightfully belonging to the House of Macedon not Athens. Macedonia was the hated tyrant-monarchy of the Hellenic City States. If there was a Slav invasion ; Why then was Macedonia taken by force in 1912 by the Greek Empire? Why would the Slavs have used a centuries old name instead of renaming the region? The Slavs never moved in, so to speak, but the rights of heritage and history were certainly moved out and into the political arena of Athens and with the blessings of the Western worlds views of political-pagan histories.

 

That's Not to say the Hellens did Not have glorious histories. They most certainly do. Only that the political rivalries between cultures goverments has over the ages has left it's marks of injustices on the tales of the peoples origins in the Balkans.

[Favonius Cornelius]

I don't think the peoples of northern Greece can be said to be who they always have been...

[Primus Pilus]

There was no Slav migration.

 

Thats new to me. Please clarify: are you attempting to say that the well attested migrations/invasions of the Avars and Slavs from beyond the Carpathians did not occur at all, or only that their influence south of the Danube and the central Balkans has been overstated?

[Aphrodite]

Can you name one proud race who can proove a pure bloodline though? What constitutes as pure?

 

Of course the bloodlines will have altered over a thousand years, but the modern greeks are most likely to be the closest descendants of the ancient greeks we have on the planet today.

[Andrew Dalby]

Can you name one proud race who can proove a pure bloodline though? What constitutes as pure?

 

Of course the bloodlines will have altered over a thousand years, but the modern greeks are most likely to be the closest descendants of the ancient greeks we have on the planet today.

 

I agree. And there are some surprising well-documented survivals. Here's a non-Greek example: the bog body recently discovered in Somerset (SW England). DNA samples from some local people were compared, and a teacher living a few miles away proved to be a member of this Iron Age victim's family. This in spite of the Saxon invasion of the 6th century AD, which used to be thought to have completely driven out the local population. If DNA samples become available from ancient Greeks, I'm sure the same would prove true.

[Divi Filius]

The idea of the Greeks being fully displaced by conquering people is just as ridiculous as the idea that Greeks are pure. According to chroniclers of the Byzantine era, areas such as Thessolonika were considered "Roman hotbeds in a slavic sea". Infact, slavs were said to have gone deep into the Pelopenesus for a while before the Byzantines took them back. What followed afterwards was infact a purge, but on top of that also a level of assimilation. There have been a slew of slavic placenames down as south as the Pelopenesus. But the fact is is that Greeks still speak there language closest to their historical form then say Italians to latin today(though to what full extent the language has been preserved I cannot say).

[Guest Hellas]

Hi I ran into this board while looking for Greek articles on this subject right now im in the middle of figuring out every single Greek bloodline that modern Greeks have. i myself am half Greek, and all i can say is yes Greeks are still around in alot of places including whats now Greece, Greeks are not slavic and nor look slavic, though Macedonia a border country is slavic now and they resemble slavs, Greeks are mixed with alot of bloodlines from the Mediterranean like italy, turkey, egypt, well everyone. to the middleeast to asia whats now Pakistan and India there are people who say-have Greek bloodlines and other North African countries as well, modern greeks are mixer of basically everyone they came into contact with in the ancient world, and in some cases on purpose like in egypt alot of people like in alexadria are called Greek - Egyptians (i am) basically if someone says they are 100% Greek they arent, but who is anyway, basically i call Greeks the human humping rabbits in history. all you have to know! theres probably people walking around related to Aristotle but if you think about it.. that person has alot of races mixed in now anyway.

[Pantagathus]

The real answer is that none of us have pure bloodlines, whatever bloodlines may be, but the modern Greeks are as closely related to their ancient compatriots as anyone else is.

 

And the modern science of Geneography proves Andrews point

[Northern Neil]

Just a little addition to this... According to Colin McEvedy's 'Atlas of Mediaeval History' (Penguin) the Slavs got as far as Crete. According to another book I read - unfortunately I've forgotten what the actual book was - there are seven places in Crete today who'se names have Slavic origins.

[Tobias]

There was no Slav migration.

 

You need to brush up on your Byzantine History old fellow;

 

http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~wiseman/Roman/19Maps.html#623

 

The Avars raided the Balkans repeatedly, and Slav Settlers took advantage of this, migrating in their wake and settling in the Balkans.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Tobias

[Greco-Roman]

right now im in the middle of figuring out every single Greek bloodline that modern Greeks have.

 

so what your saying is you no my blood line? cuz i am greek Hastoglis try it

but how could you say that the greeks dissapeared in the middle ages when they were the byzarnite empire and the main releigoin was Greek orthodox

sure they werent in any major battles but still