Talk About Druids.

[Chyhoedd da]

Hello,

 

IM a player waiting for the game Roma-Victor to comeout. I wish to establish a Druidic cult (Not neo-pagan, neo-druid, wiccan or such) that will Rolepaly as Druids did then. So far there is only one Celtic Cult, and many agree, like Moonlapse that they do not particpate in many activities. Though from my interpretations, they (Druids) were very active in their times. (The game is set in 180ad)

 

Now, what I have come to understand is that oak trees are sacred to them and that the word druid may have come from an earlier form of a name for oaks. Also, oak grove were holy places, like temples to many other religions. It seems they veiws Mistltoe as a sortof of all-healing plant and used it in many of thier concotions (even poison) Also Mistletoe was even holier if found onan oak (holy object on holy object= very holy)

 

Now, an interesting part I learned and need some wuestions on too. The druids cut the mistletoe with a golden sickle or blade (Why?) now, befoer the commenced to cutting the Mistletoe, they laid a white blanket under it where it should fall. If it diddnt fall on blanket, meant destruction of village("May I order some sacrafices to prevent the destruction please?" )

 

Whas i would like to know is:

 

What they wore? (I've only seenwhite robes mentioned)

What they did in day-to-day life? (not ceremonies)

Were they paid? (whether gold or items)

Religous places? ( I have oak groves and near water )

 

Also I would like to know about bards and healers back then too. If you have any comments or questions post here.

[Andrew Dalby]

Now, what I have come to understand is that oak trees are sacred to them and that the word druid may have come from an earlier form of a name for oaks. Also, oak grove were holy places, like temples to many other religions. It seems they veiws Mistltoe as a sortof of all-healing plant and used it in many of thier concotions (even poison) Also Mistletoe was even holier if found on an oak (holy object on holy object= very holy)

 

And very rare. I've never seen it on an oak (this is central France incidentally). Apples and pears and poplars, occasionally hawthorns. You have to get it off your apple trees -- mistletoe is death to an apple tree, local people say.

[Pantagathus]

And very rare. I've never seen it on an oak (this is central France incidentally). Apples and pears and poplars, occasionally hawthorns. You have to get it off your apple trees -- mistletoe is death to an apple tree, local people say.

 

In the eastern United States it is still somewhat common to find misletoe growing way up on big oaks. I'm afraid a Druid would be shocked at the method most people employ to get samples down for the holidays though... (shoot it out with a small shotgun ~.410)

[Pertinax]

CD have a look at my notes appended to the Mistletoe entry in the "Roman Herbal " gallery (its Viscum album ) and also cross check to blog entries-its by no means complete but there is some more useful info.

[Skarr]

I would guess that the druids wore wool garments of some kind and as winters were cold, they would have also used furs or skins from animals. I think the druids "clad in white" may be heavily influenced by some common media representations (think Asterix).

 

There were many sacred places - from trees, to natural formations / clearings and even open spaces.

 

For example, a natural clearing within a thick forest would be a sacred place as also a thick stand of oak trees as this tree has been venerated for years by different cultures.

 

I have some archival information that I need to dig into and will post here.

[Pertinax]

The oak/mistletoe occurence has two interesting debating points 1; some botanists suggest that the occurence is so rare because specialised sub species of both plants need to be in the same range , rather than the main species .2;that after the conversion of many Britons to Christianity there was assiduous destruction of both host and parasite within areas of former druidic influence.

[Pantagathus]

The oak/mistletoe occurence has two interesting debating points 1; some botanists suggest that the occurence is so rare because specialised sub species of both plants need to be in the same range , rather than the main species .2;that after the conversion of many Britons to Christianity there was assiduous destruction of both host and parasite within areas of former druidic influence.

 

I can think of at least three magnificent examples right near my house! Looks like I will have to take a walk with the camera this week...

[Rameses the Great]

Celts are meant to strike fear into the armies of the civilized world. And dude why do you want a Celtic cult there are already Goths everywhere! :pimp:

 

May I suggest Rome Total War to you all trust me you guys would love it.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Rameses the Great

[LEG X EQ]

Celts are meant to strike fear into the armies of the civilized world

 

It seems you dont have a clue about the Keltic culture. The celtic culture evolved in the Urnenfeld Culture (along with the italics and illyrians and venetics) and progressed in the Hallstatt culture and La Tene culture.

Those were cultures of great wisdom and progress across all of europe.

 

So those cultures are of good foundations, and its purpose was not to scare anybody, just because the greeks were not accustomed to their appearence doesnt mean they were brainless monsters.

 

Inform about the Goths, and dont be single minded and associate the modern gothic fashion with the ancient Germanic Goths.

Edited April 2, 2006 by LEG X EQ

[Rameses the Great]

Ok, please explain this to me Leg Ex EQ why did the Druids go into battle chanting upon 'spirits' if they did not think they can strike fear into the opponent? Or do you think for a moment that Druids are civilized people that did not have human sacrifices. Oh no, I guess facts are also single mindedness. The Illyrians also known as present day Albania and Yugoslavia associated with the Thracian and Macedonian nations. Celtic culture evolved from northern Gaul and particularly in England. So don't say I don't know much about Celtic culture. The Celtic culture bordered many lands and associated into Gallatia that much is true. They also bordered Greece and Persia and adopted their ways. Druidic practice stared in Gaul and Britania. And just one more question if Celtic Druidic culture began in Illyria and Italics why were the Greeks not afraid of them?

 

P.S. please do not put words into my mouth. Never did I once call them brainless monsters. If they are brainless monsters how did they last for so long?

[LEG X EQ]

Ok, please explain this to me Leg Ex EQ why did the Druids go into battle chanting upon 'spirits' if they did not think they can strike fear into the opponent? Or do you think for a moment that Druids are civilized people that did not have human sacrifices. Oh no, I guess facts are also single mindedness. The Illyrians also known as present day Albania and Yugoslavia associated with the Thracian and Macedonian nations. Celtic culture evolved from northern Gaul and particularly in England. So don't say I don't know much about Celtic culture. The Celtic culture bordered many lands and associated into Gallatia that much is true. They also bordered Greece and Persia and adopted their ways. Druidic practice stared in Gaul and Britania. And just one more question if Celtic Druidic culture began in Illyria and Italics why were the Greeks not afraid of them?

 

Ok, all i will do is paste your absolute incorrect post with all its incorrect information, for most:Celtic culture evolved from northern Gaul and particularly in England. So don't say I don't know much about Celtic culture

 

and let other board members have a say at your post. All i have to say inform yourself about Indo-European Migrations, Indo-European Cultures (lausitz, Urnfield etc.) and about Keltic migration.

 

To your false interpretations, i never said that the italics created the druids. The Italic Tribes are Indo-European tribes of the Urn Field Culture that migrated south. And The Kelts migrated west.

 

Have a little bit more respect for ancient tradiotns before you demonise them in public.

 

As for your albanian refference, i have no idea what that is about??

Yes, Gauls invaded most of the Balkan and settled within Menor Asia, and whats your point?

As for the Greeks not being afraid of the gauls, also there i have no idea what you mean?

Edited April 2, 2006 by LEG X EQ

[Rameses the Great]

Have a little bit more respect for ancient tradiotns before you demonise them in public.

 

Please, please I never EVER deamonize ancient traditions of any culture. You sir or maam are trying to make me seem like a deamon myself. Please I'd like to stop this feud, before I have to demean your dignity like you have mind. I'd like to be friends with you but if you continue to take cheap shots at my pride I will have to report this.

 

Can we be friends before this gets carried away.

[Moonlapse]

Perhaps he meant to say that druidism within Celtic societies evolved from northern Gaul and particularly in England... however this most likely based on the writing of Julius Caesar from the Fourth book of the Gallic Wars, XIII:

Throughout all Gaul there are two orders of those men who are of

any rank and dignity: for the commonality is held almost in the

condition of slaves, and dares to undertake nothing of itself and is

admitted to no deliberation. The greater part, when they are pressed

either by debt, or the large amount of their tributes, or the oppression

of the more powerful, give themselves up in vassalage to the nobles, who

possess over them the same rights without exception as masters over

their slaves. But of these two orders, one is that of the Druids, the

other that of the knights. The former are engaged in things sacred,

conduct the public and the private sacrifices, and interpret all matters

of religion. To these a large number of the young men resort for the

purpose of instruction, and they [the Druids] are in great honour among

them. For they determine respecting almost all controversies, public and

private; and if any crime has been perpetrated, if murder has been

committed, if there be any dispute about an inheritance, if any about

boundaries, these same persons decide it; they decree rewards and

punishments if any one, either in a private or public capacity, has not

submitted to their decision, they interdict him from the sacrifices.

This among them is the most heavy punishment. Those who have been thus

interdicted are esteemed in the number of the impious and the criminal:

all shun them, and avoid their society and conversation, lest they

receive some evil from their contact; nor is justice administered to

them when seeking it, nor is any dignity bestowed on them. Over all

these Druids one presides, who possesses supreme authority among them.

Upon his death, if any individual among the rest is pre-eminent in

dignity, he succeeds; but, if there are many equal, the election is made

by the suffrages of the Druids; sometimes they even contend for the

presidency with arms. These assemble at a fixed period of the year in a

consecrated place in the territories of the Carnutes, which is reckoned

the central region of the whole of Gaul. Hither all, who have disputes,

assemble from every part, and submit to their decrees and

determinations. This institution is supposed to have been devised in

Britain, and to have been brought over from it into Gaul; and now those

who desire to gain a more accurate knowledge of that system generally

proceed thither for the purpose of studying it.

 

Particularily the last part - "This institution is supposed to have been devised in Britain, and to have been brought over from it into Gaul; and now those who desire to gain a more accurate knowledge of that system generally proceed thither for the purpose of studying it."

 

This doesn't prove that druidism originated there, all that it really says is that Britain was a primary focal point in that time. Then theres the extremely foggy matter of the Tuatha de Danann in early Irish myth, but it should only be understood in the context of myth.

 

If you want a far more solid starting point, look into the similarities to the Brahman in India. If you exclude the subjective stuff, most things you will find point to an indo-european origin for 'celtic' society and druidism.

 

But anyways, saying "Celtic culture evolved from northern Gaul and particularly in England. So don't say I don't know much about Celtic culture" is highly ironic and it makes me laugh. Go to the library, and read the texts that make use of real evidence. Then come back and and have a discussion that excludes generalities and subjectivity as much as possible. Thanks.

 

Oh yeah, use references.

[LEG X EQ]

@Rameses the Great

 

No, i am deffinatly not out to get you or insult you. I have no intentions of doing this what so ever. It could be my German way that i take things to literally. But trust me, i am not getting personal over a PC, because its idiotic and cowerdice. So dont interpretate any emotions or intentions into my posts. Ancient History is delicate issue, especially on continental europe. So i take things a little to precise sometimes and it could seem that i am attacking you, but i am not. I just try to point out certain Historic facts in the best possible english i can come up with.

 

so, no bad blood.

[Rameses the Great]

Ok than you Leg X EQ. I know how you feel, you always want to protect your heritage I am no different. If I insulted you German heritage I do not meen to by any meens. I have many German frieds and now I know that I don't have any enemies. Germans on the contrary were very smart. They utilised their army very well against the Romans and sometimes outsmarted them. That is why I try to defend the phalanx so badly that is because that is where my heritage is from. I tend to overexaggerate things to make my point, but you my friend are very smart and sharp. Letsg get back to talking about Celtic information, without further ado!