Roman Military Superiority

[Germanicus]

If you had to choose one, which element in the poll above would you choose as the most important element in the success of the Roman Army, post Marian reforms ?

[Pertinax]

This is a hard one to call, you need enough quality people to draw on, they have to be well equipped and properly drilled , you must be open to tactical and strategic nous .. but esprit de corps is the most elusive thing, if morale is good and your chums will back you up in a tough spot and you likewise for them ..then my vote is for morale.

[roman wargamer]

if you recall, in 2nd Punic War, Rome repeatedly lose the battle and the casualty runs to 300,000.

 

but Hannibal lose only at Zama, and never recover from it, to build new army.

 

1. pool of manpower which to draw. my first choice.

 

2. training and movement tactics. my second choice.

[Germanicus]

I'm talking post Marian reforms Roman Wargamer, but thanks for voting

[roman wargamer]

yes, but Punic era is after Marius time.

 

and still at this time, Rome's 35 Tribe confederation was now fully intact into people's life.

[Germanicus]

yes, but Punic era is after Marius time.

 

Come on Roman wargamer I know you know better than that :-

 

1st Punic war = 264-241 BC

2nd Punic War = 218-202 BC

Battle of Zama = 202BC

 

Marius born = 157 BC

Marius reforms the legions = 107BC - ish

 

But back to the poll !

[roman wargamer]

not really, i am very poor at remembering dates and names,

but i have now to ( force to ) looks at my old notes.

 

but i am very pond of remembering good battle but not the date.

[caldrail]

IMHO? Professionalism. Post-Marius the romans structured their legions to maintain a high standard of drill, discipline, fitness, aggression, and control. I don't recall any army of the period that was equal, although leadership wasn't always their strong point - hence the success of a largely mercenary army under Hannibal, or a slave rebellion under Spartacus.

 

They did however motivate their troops with a harsh regime, pay, citizenship, pension scheme, and the promise of rewards from donatives or generous generals. They belonged to an army that gave each man a place. He knew what it was, what was expected of him, and how he was expected to achieve it.

[Germanicus]

Yes, it's difficult to choose one, Professionalism is an expression of them all, working together, that was the thing about the reforms, they created a professional Army.

[Princeps]

"Their drills were like bloodless battles; their battles bloody drills."

 

I'm not sure what time period this quote comes from, but I chose training.

 

Edit - fixed quote. Also, I think this might have been Suetonius, speaking of Hadrian.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Princeps

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Obviously how is an army going to be victorious without a strategy and tactics.

[Virgil61]

If you had to choose one, which element in the poll above would you choose as the most important element in the success of the Roman Army, post Marian reforms ?

 

One minor quibble Germanicus, I'd have split training and tactics into different answers.

 

Without question it's training. No army can be continuously successful without it. Everything, especially things like morale and tenacity come from training.

 

Princep's quote above says it all: "Their drills were like bloodless battles; their battles bloody drills." It reflects the same saying the US Army has today; "Train as you fight".

Edited February 26, 2006 by Virgil61

[Jimbow]

"Their drills were like bloodless battles; their battles bloody drills."

 

Josephus, The Jewish War.

 

Another:

"Each soldier daily throws all his energy into his drill, as though he were in action. ..."

[Germanicus]

One minor quibble Germanicus, I'd have split training and tactics into different answers.

 

Fair enough, I knew it would be a hard one to distill.

[Ursus]

Sheer coldbloodedness?

 

 

Really, the Celts and Germans fought as individuals for matters of honor and status. For the Hellenistic types, being a warrior was a cultural imperative for arete. For mercenary cultures, it was about money and booty.

 

For the Romans after Marius, it was geopolitics.