Gothic Warfare

[Kosmo]

For most of the history of the steppe in the North of Black Sea there are just two occasions when the steppe nomads were conquered by other people. This events are the goth conquest in Late antiquity and the russian one in the end of the XVIII century.

The goths moved from the forested marshland of the Baltic Sea to the open plains of the Black Sea. How were they able to defeat the fast cavalry of the sarmatians that was such a terrible foe for the roman legions?

The first gothic attacks against the Empire were made over the sea with the help of the greeeks from the Bosporan kingdom, so, this gives no clue about their cavalry. Later they used heavy cavalry in the battle of Adrianopole.

How good was gothic cavalry in the time when they migrated from the Baltic Sea? How where they able to defeat the excelent sarmatic cavalry in open land?

Some arheological information about gothic sites in Poland: http://www.muzarp.poznan.pl/archweb/gazociag/title5.htm

Edited February 17, 2006 by Kosmo

[Neos Dionysos]

They did use heavy cavalry at the battle of Adrianople but the cavalry was not Gothic, it was Alan and Hunnic mercenaries that had been hired to fight alongside the ever growing Gothic entity that formed in the Eastern Roman Empire. The Goths had cavalry yes, but it was more of light nature and they were not adept at horsemanship. They were excellent swordsmen and of various other infantry but not in heavy cavalry. This is why there is really no mention of Gothic Cavalry till they are in Roman lands, and as I explained they were mainly made up of Alan and Hunnic horsemen.

 

I can't answer how they defeated the Sarmations, although as I stated above, they may have acquired the assistance of allied contingents of Alans and Huns who were renowned for thier horsemanship.

[Germanicus]

The goths moved from the forested marshland of the Baltic Sea to the open plains of the Black Sea. How were they able to defeat the fast cavalry of the sarmatians that was such a terrible foe for the roman legions?

 

Perhaps they adopted the old faithfull tactic of the Romans - hire some of the enemy you are having trouble with to fight for you. The Alans or Alani were a Sarmation tribal group, perhaps Gothic use of Alan mercenaries balanced the sarmation superiority in cavalry ?

[Neos Dionysos]

The goths moved from the forested marshland of the Baltic Sea to the open plains of the Black Sea. How were they able to defeat the fast cavalry of the sarmatians that was such a terrible foe for the roman legions?

 

Perhaps they adopted the old faithfull tactic of the Romans - hire some of the enemy you are having trouble with to fight for you. The Alans or Alani were a Sarmation tribal group, perhaps Gothic use of Alan mercenaries balanced the sarmation superiority in cavalry ?

 

 

That's my arguement... they do it later on, so perhaps this is evidence that it was a practice they had used before becuase of the success it brought them.

[Kosmo]

It's a good theory but alans were in the Volga region until the huns pushed them aside. So, I'm not convinced. If the mercenaries are doing the job what is stoping them to crush the goths later? Or to defeat the sarmatians by themselves? How can the goths rule the sarmatians if the alans go home?

I believe that goths played a bigger part in this, but I have no ideea how.

[Neos Dionysos]

It's a good theory but alans were in the Volga region until the huns pushed them aside. So, I'm not convinced. If the mercenaries are doing the job what is stoping them to crush the goths later? Or to defeat the sarmatians by themselves? How can the goths rule the sarmatians if the alans go home?

I believe that goths played a bigger part in this, but I have no ideea how.

 

It's a mercenary group, they are not simply fixiated at one location until thier people move, a mercenary group goes where the money is, so while the Alans as a people are there, there were still mercenary groups who operated around elsewhere and who were also at times for hire by Romans before Adrianople I might add.

 

The Mercenaries are not 'doing the job' they are the hired help, simple as that, they played a role, doesn't mean they are going to suddenly turn around and destroy those who employed them. We do not have any evidence or knowledge of how the Goths defeated the Sarmations, perhaps they needed little cavalry to do it, perhaps they attacked thier lands instead, or if the cavalry was important, and the Alans were used to win a victory, why would the Sarmations now, having just been defeated, suddenly rise up against the Goths once the Alans left, (if they did at all). If they did, the Goths may have had a small but adequate cavalry force able to hold the Sarmations in check and the Sarmations, having been recently defeated, would be in no shape or mood to start another conflict.

 

The Goths probabaly did play larger parts, however without any details or basic information on what transpired we are left just guessing. Again, maybe cavalry for some reason, played little or no major part and if we are left with the fate being decided by infantry then the Goths clearly have the upper hand.

Edited February 20, 2006 by Neos Dionysos

[Kosmo]

Maybe, a more exact knoledge of the area were the goths first setlled will give us some light. Maybe they just bought the right to passage to the Bosporan kingdom and only later became masters of steppe. I have some maps showing goth migrations or the area controlled by goths, but they don't seem to bee based on arheological evidence.

[Guest Tommylaw]

The goths moved from the forested marshland of the Baltic Sea to the open plains of the Black Sea. How were they able to defeat the fast cavalry of the sarmatians that was such a terrible foe for the roman legions?

 

The Goths had adequate cavalry in times when they needed it,yes they were a mainly infantry reliant force but they used cavalry when the occasion alls for it.The Sarmatians had no proper central authority making it hard for them to sucessfully repell strong invaders.Their horse archers were indeed terrible but it was nothing that heavier cavalry could not handle.