Languages: Greek and Latin

[dnewhous]

Reading a review of the Passion of Christ I read a criticism that has me intrigued. The criticism was that Pontius Pilate should be speaking Greek, not Latin. This made some memories resurface in my mind. I think I remember learning that the Romans considered it more cultured to speak Greek rather than Latin, and if I'm not mistaken by the time of the Byzantine Empire Greek had replaced Latin as the language of the empire. It is certainly true that the earliest manuscripts of the bible were in Greek, not Latin.

 

I am wondering what information is available on the use of the two languages in the empire.

[Primus Pilus]

This is a very simplified answer. Greek was more widely used in the east. To communicate with the residents of Judaea Roman officials likely would've have spoke Greek rather than Latin, as it was a more widely known language there.

[Viggen]

Hello dnewhous and welcome at UNRV!

 

Thanks for your question and also thanks to Primuspilus for answering it.

 

I believe that already with Alexander the Great, greek became the lingua franca of the east and if i am not mistaken were the ruling class at the time in Egypt (so not that far away from Jud

[Primus Pilus]

Yes, the Ptolemies, and other ruling class people in Egypt and the Asian provinces had some Macedonian descent carried over from the conquests of Alexander. The entire eastern world had some connection to its language and culture. As such, much like the use of modern English for economic reasons, Greek was a universal language in the ancient world. Almost every culture had a bit of understanding of it, so in many cases, it was the best language to communicate with many different people.

 

And dnewhous is right in his assessment of Romans preferring Greek to Latin. Well at least partially right. Some did, some didn't, just depended on the personality or profession, I suppose. Philosophy, the arts, medicine, etc. were Greek cultural endeavors, so those inclined to that sort of thing may have preferred Greek. Some found it a far more soothing language than the bluntness of Latin. A good Latin orator was rare indeed, due simply in part to the particular style of the language. Still, there were many Romans who would prefer using Latin, because well, it was Roman, and for many nothing was better than being a Roman.

[Guest veritas]

Thanks to all of you... I have been wondering about this Roman/Greek language question.. after hearing that the Romans actually spoke Greek. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[Viggen]

Hello veritas and welcome to UNRV.com!

 

Glad to hear that we are a bit of an enlightenment.

 

Hope to hear from you again.

 

cheers

viggen

[dnewhous]

Now that you bring up Egypt, how exactly did it become part of the Empire? I remember something about Ptolemy leaving Egypt to Rome in his will but Rome wasn't interested at the time?

From the TNT special "Julius Ceasar" (I know, don't look there for real history) there was something about Cleopatra's power being usurped by nefarious locals.

 

What the special did bring up that was really curious, which may or may not have really happened, is Cleopatra seducing Julius Caesar and bearing him a child and this is what finally sent Brutus over the edge because he feared a heriditary monarchy.

[Primus Pilus]

The TNT special was actually quite good, nothing to be ashamed of learning a little and being entertained at the same time Unfortunately, with movies, mini-series and specials they are limited by time and sometimes budgets. Because of that they sometimes have to leave part of the story out, or cut corners to make it watchable and understandable to a wide audience.

 

Anyway, the son of Cleopatra and Caesar, Caesarion, and the presence of the Queen of Egypt as Caesar's mistress in Rome, was certainly one of many factors leading to Caesar's death. Octavian, Caesar's heir, certainly wasted no time eliminating the child after his victory and annexation of Egypt in 30 BC.

 

Egypt was originally tied to Rome through the efforts of Ptolemy XII. In 59 BC, after negotiations (bribes) with both Caesar and Pompey along with other influential Senators, he sealed Egypts fate by becoming friend and ally status with Rome. He was deposed by his own people after the Roman conquest of Cyprus in 58 BC and fled to Rome. He was promptly, within a couple of years, put back in power with Roman influence, but died a few years later. In his will, Cleopatra VII and his son, Ptolemy XIII, were made joint rulers, but the catch was that Rome was the executor of the will. Caesar's and Antonius' relationship with Cleopatra cemented Roman influence on the state and by the time Augustus defeated Antonius and Cleopatra in 31 BC Rome was firmly planted as rulers of Egypt.

[dnewhous]

How did Augustus eliminate Octavian? And how did Octavian become Julius's heir?

 

And I read a little bit of a book (not enough time for the whole thing) on the Roman emperors that makes Sulla look completely different than how he was portrayed in the TNT special. He was a general that usurped power but voluntarily gave it up and went back to being a farmer after 2 years. Apparently Julius mocked him for being such a wimp as to voluntarily give up power.

 

The TNT special made Sulla look like a completely ruthless dictator who died of a hear attack when Pompeii refused an order.

 

The book also pointed out that Mark Anthony (Julius's chief lieutenant) wanted to be Julius's heir but he didn't have anywhere near the same talent level.

[Primus Pilus]

Augustus is Octavian. The term 'Augustus' was a title or honor granted by the Senate. All Emperors carried the title, but we refer to Octavian as Augustus because he was the first. He was Caesar's great nephew and apparantly Caesar saw great promise in him. He favored his sister and her family more than his distant relatives, the Antonius (Marc Antony) family.

 

Sulla was ruthless, but his many reforms helped stabilize a very weak system at the time. Although he did give up power officially, Sulla was never truly retired. His men were still elected and held all the important magistracies and certainly took guidance from him. It wasn't until his death when power shifted back to the Senate, but not before.

 

As for Antonius, yes he wanted to be Caesar's heir. Hell who didn't, lol. He even made such claims before the will was actually read. Some have claimed that Antonius was a willing participant in Caesar's assassination so he could reap the rewards of being the heir. Antonius was an excellent orator, nothing quite like Caesar or Cicero, but a good one nonetheless. He had some success on the battlefield as well, but was later no match for Agrippa, Octavian's chief Legate.

[dnewhous]

If the official title of the emperor was "Augustus" then why do we remember it as "Caesar?"

[Viggen]

Some info about it,

http://www.unrv.com/government/caesar-augustus.php

 

cheers

viggen

[Primus Pilus]

Its remembered as Caesar because thats how movies have portrayed it for years. The title Caesar specifically referred to the heir to the Augustus. Its certainly quite possible that crowds could chant hail Caesar, etc., but the official title of the emperor was Augustus.

 

Caesar also has remained quite popular due to the historical ramifications of the word. The Russian title C'zar and German Kaiser are both derivatives of the name Caesar. He certainly left quite an impression.