Pantagathus Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) One of the more well know dishes thanks to Marcus Gavius Apicius... Isicia Omentata Ingredients: ~1.1lb (500g) ground meat (kibbeh fine!) 1 hard roll soaked in white wine 1/2 teaspoon ground pepper ~3 1/2 tbsp (50ml) of Liquamen (Suggest asian oyster sauce) Ground Pinenuts Green Peppercorns (I like to add capers as well) Caroenum (I make this by reducing Pinot Noir with honey!) salt to taste Parchment paper (if using oven) / Foil (if using grill) Directions: Blend meat, salt-pepper & liquamen with the soaked roll. Form small burgers and put pine kernels and peppercorns (& capers!) into them. Brush the patties with the Caroenum and enclose them in the parchment paper/foil and cook on medium heat until done. Now, I've done this with beef, lamb & pork. All delicious. However, I look to Pertinax or Mr. Dalby to say which was the most likely meat to have been used (pork?) Edited January 12, 2006 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nice! ' I would have to say pork if you are a respectable Roman of rank. And from your own farm perhaps an days travel from Rome? AD will tell us the authorised version im sure. Beef is a tricky subject as cows milk was not at all popular and bulls were, I believe, of considerable sacrificial significance . Papyrus as the parchment roasting wrap as well. Nam Pla is my Garum ! You can host the feasting anytime Pantagathus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nice! 'I would have to say pork if you are a respectable Roman of rank. And from your own farm perhaps an days travel from Rome? AD will tell us the authorised version im sure. Beef is a tricky subject as cows milk was not at all popular and bulls were, I believe, of considerable sacrificial significance . Papyrus as the parchment roasting wrap as well. Nam Pla is my Garum ! You can host the feasting anytime Pantagathus! Thank you sir, I would use Nam Pla but my girlfriend draws the line with oyster sauce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 may I share this link with you all http://www.glassonsmokehouse.co.uk/ my xmas hamper came from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 That does sound good...I doubt I'll ever have a chance to make it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Garum really does sound awful. For what do you use Nam Pla? Also, for this dish, how do you keep it from being too dry if you use pork or beef? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Garum really does sound awful. For what do you use Nam Pla? Also, for this dish, how do you keep it from being too dry if you use pork or beef? The Nam Pla is a similar liquid-essentially a flavour enhancer made of strong fish "sauce" and a natural source of monosodium glutamate, this is a substitute for salt in effect , for flavouring a stew (of meat or fish) for eaxample. If you enjoy savoury or very rich foods the Nam Pla is exquisite. Roman cooking has few references to salt as an ingredient in the preparation of foods but dozens citing the use of garum. http://www.italiancookingandliving.com/foo...t/ac_garum.html heres a quick link , if you root about in my older food threads ("another roman recipe" and "most trrrible thing youve had for dinner") we have discussed the topic before (if briefly). The best garum was from fermented tuna head/entrails and blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 This sounds damn good... You guys have any other links or places I can find more on Roman dishes? Or even Greek for that matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) Andrew Dalby is a forum member look at his bibilography, and his "food word" site ( it links via his signature on any message). Have a look at Patrick Faas also . I have reviewed books by both gentlemen on the forum , The AD review is in Viggen's war chest pending publication on here, the Faas review is in one of the two "food " threads on this forum. That should get you going! http://www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/garum.htm heres the link I was trying to find yesterday! Anything about beer link to Pantagathus's site , what he doesnt know can be written on the back of a stamp.Just go to his profile to get the link , the entries are "modern" but his knowledge is based ona great depth of historical knowledge. Edited January 15, 2006 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Andrew Dalby is a forum member look at his bibilography, and his "food word" site ( it links via his signature on any message). Have a look at Patrick Faas also . I have reviewed books by both gentlemen on the forum , The AD review is in Viggen's war chest pending publication on here, the Faas review is in one of the two "food " threads on this forum. That should get you going!http://www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/garum.htm heres the link I was trying to find yesterday! Anything about beer link to Pantagathus's site , what he doesnt know can be written on the back of a stamp.Just go to his profile to get the link , the entries are "modern" but his knowledge is based ona great depth of historical knowledge. Thanks a lot Pertinax. It seems I tend to ignore signatures when I should be paying better attention to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 ADs "dangerous tastes" book will also give some linkage to your remarks about the extent of Roman trade/influence/movement in an adjacent thread in this forum (beyond the frontiers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Nice! 'I would have to say pork if you are a respectable Roman of rank. And from your own farm perhaps an days travel from Rome? AD will tell us the authorised version im sure. Beef is a tricky subject as cows milk was not at all popular and bulls were, I believe, of considerable sacrificial significance . Papyrus as the parchment roasting wrap as well. Nam Pla is my Garum ! Apologies for silence -- I've been writing a book instead -- I praise the recipe that began this thread and I agree that isicia would most often consist of pork, but there's lamb too, and Apicius has recipes for seafood isicia so the word itself must imply that you can use minced meat of any species. As some will know, isicia is the origin (via the phrase 'salsa isicia') of modern words for sausage in many languages, from English to Greek. In fact the compound 'salsikia' is first recorded (so far as I know) in early Byzantine Greek, say 7th century? One of those mad saints, I'll remember his name the moment I log out, used to parade around Antioch with a 'seira salsikion' around his neck. There: anyone who wants to know the Byzantine Greek for a 'string of sausages', now knows it! But, look here Pertinax, 'considerable sacrificial significance' equates to 'avidly eaten, at least on special occasions'! Didn't you use to look forward to Sunday roasts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) I did drop a piece in somewhere about " eating the messengers of the Gods" -as I assume we are all obliged to by way of getting closer to the appropriate deity . I just had an excellent roast of belly Pork, thank you very much. trivia: I am aware that a celebrated supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club attends matches bedecked in a string of blue and white sausages. Edited January 15, 2006 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 (edited) Anything about beer link to Pantagathus's site , what he doesnt know can be written on the back of a stamp.Just go to his profile to get the link , the entries are "modern" but his knowledge is based ona great depth of historical knowledge. My Friend, you are too kind to a site that is woefully lacking in content and too often neglected by it's author... Now, as to M. Porcius Cato's question about keeping the dryness down; the wine soaked roll helps as does keeping the temperature down when cooking but I would say the key is to not use too lean of meat. (Which kinda of contradicts my comment about using kibbeh fine meat but just ignore that!) So 70/30 for juicy and 80/20 if you insist on keeping the fat content down... Edited January 17, 2006 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvioustus Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Ancient Roman food seems worlds removed from modern Italian which is basically adopted in the US. Ancient Roman food seems like a few steps above neantherdal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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