Monasticism And Roman Religion

[M. Porcius Cato]

I've read that Roman priests were not a separate class or profession. How did monasticism come to Roman civilization? Was it through Christianity or were there other monastic cults in Rome?

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I've read that Roman priests were not a separate class or profession. How did monasticism come to Roman civilization? Was it through Christianity or were there other monastic cults in Rome?

 

Not good at this, but I think that any kind of community that follows the same rules and beliefs in religious terms is a monastic. Now with that definition, any form of monasticism could have existed anywhere and anytime.

Edited January 10, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[M. Porcius Cato]

Well, if you define a rock as a book, you can read stones.

 

A full-time group of religious officers, who produce no material goods and who contribute nothing to society but pledging to remove themselves from the gene pool--that's a monastic order.

[Ludovicus]

Well, if you define a rock as a book, you can read stones.

 

A full-time group of religious officers, who produce no material goods and who contribute nothing to society but pledging to remove themselves from the gene pool--that's a monastic order.

 

 

How curious a post the above. Who copied and archived much of Latin literature while educational standards all but disappeared in the former Roman Empire? The Benedictines preserved much of Roman agricultural science as well.

[LEG X EQ]

Who copied and archived much of Latin literature

 

It was the German Emperor Friedrich II.

 

while educational standards all but disappeared in the former Roman Empire?

 

From your post i take it that you take the side of the church, but than you shouldnt ask or wonder about the educational standard. Because it was the church who kept education from the masses.

 

The Benedictines preserved much of Roman agricultural science as well.

 

Yes, but for themselves. Ora et Labora was a monk way to live and not a common citizen one.

Im christian myself, but what the church did in the post roman era, was a disgrace.

[M. Porcius Cato]

But where did the monasteries start???? How were they distributed throughout the empire? Were there monasteries prior to Christianity?

[LEG X EQ]

Were there monasteries prior to Christianity?

 

I doubt it, in terms of Rome and europe. Monasteries exist so a bunch of people can devote their lifes to a certain lifstyle. The lifestyle of Christ, the lifestyle of Buddha etc.. They recite the Holy Books and stories and try to do as much charity as possible and inspire other people with their lifestyles.

So i doubt that there was a monasterie in Italy or Greece, were Greeks or Romans lifed trying to life like Zeus or Jupiter. Except for the Soldiers who wanted to please and to be as brave as Mars or Mithras, i dont know of any other walk of people to have persude living certain lifstyles.

 

If i am not mistaking, than the first Christian monasterie, was in Damascus syria.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Roman pagan priests in all their forms could marry, albeit with some rules and regulations for some of them like the Flamen Dialis, but often I think it would not be surprising to find a cult outpost established in some corner of the empire, say perhaps a Mithradic one, where the priests were all males and bachelors.

 

My bet is that this sort of heavy religious devotion runs back further than Christianity.

[sullafelix]

But where did the monasteries start???? How were they distributed throughout the empire? Were there monasteries prior to Christianity?

 

It's a difficult question. You could say that the Vestal Virgins were monastic in their lifestyle and no doubt there were other cults which had some sort of closed order structure to them. However, it was really the ascetic aspects of some early christianity that started the monastic movement which had more to with a life of contemplation and self denial. The monastic movement started in the middle east with the Desert Fathers. That was in the early fourth century with the appearance of the radical zealot Anchorites and Hermits in the aftermath of Julian's reign in Syria and Egypt

 

Hope that helps

[Julian]

Well, if you define a rock as a book, you can read stones.

 

A full-time group of religious officers, who produce no material goods and who contribute nothing to society but pledging to remove themselves from the gene pool--that's a monastic order.

 

 

How curious a post the above. Who copied and archived much of Latin literature while educational standards all but disappeared in the former Roman Empire? The Benedictines preserved much of Roman agricultural science as well.

 

Not really. Just who was it who lowered the educational standards in the first place, and placed Biblical study in its place? The Christians. At least in the west. But even in the east many books were burned.

 

I hardly think they are worthy of being congradulated for their destruction.

[sullafelix]

Well, if you define a rock as a book, you can read stones.

 

A full-time group of religious officers, who produce no material goods and who contribute nothing to society but pledging to remove themselves from the gene pool--that's a monastic order.

 

 

How curious a post the above. Who copied and archived much of Latin literature while educational standards all but disappeared in the former Roman Empire? The Benedictines preserved much of Roman agricultural science as well.

 

Not really. Just who was it who lowered the educational standards in the first place, and placed Biblical study in its place? The Christians. At least in the west. But even in the east many books were burned.

 

I hardly think they are worthy of being congradulated for their destruction.

 

I think we are rather missing the point here. However the Christians preserved the works of the previous age doesn't matter. They did so. Without them we do not know whether the works would have been saved. Education would have changed anyway because the empire was changing. Some aspects of Roman education survived a very long time. St Patrick and Gt Gildas were both educated by a Rhetor. I am not a Christian myself but there is altogether too much Christian bashing that goes on in the study of Roman history. You have to ask why Christianity spread and became so popular in the first place? It offered a way out what was for most people a terribly hard life. The monastic movement would have been a step up in living conditions for other people. So they burned a few books...what would there have been under another religion..no-one can ever know. The list of things preserved is enormous and most of it not by accident..Cicero, Caesar, Ammianus Marcellinus, Livy, Polybius, Cato, Columella, Varro, Pliny, Horace, Virgil, Catullus (surprisingly!!! maybe this is what monks read for fun)... the list is vast.

 

There are no quick answers in history

[Ursus]

. You could say that the Vestal Virgins were monastic in their lifestyle and no doubt there were other cults which had some sort of closed order structure to them.

 

 

The cult of Isis comes to mind as such a closed, private order. Unlike most religious structures in the Roman world, the Iseum was completely walled off from the surrounding world - and even within its walls there was a sanctuary where only the initiated and clergy could enter.

 

Also, there were some cults such as the Orphics who did try to seclude themselves from the surrounding lifestyle and devote themselves to a life of ascetic mysticism.

 

However, I believe Christian monasticism took all these elements, combined them, and elevated them to the next level.

[DecimusCaesar]

Perhaps one of the first monasteries was founded in Egypt, run by a mysterious man called Paul the Hermit of Thebes. Not much is known about this, but St. Jerome wrote that it was his teachings that influenced many to join the monasteries in the third century. Others claim it was St. Antony who started the monasteries (as his life is better documented than that of Peter's). A man named Pachomius later organized these little communities around Egypt into centers with about 7,000 Monks and Nuns. His ideas later reached Palestine and before long they had reached the west.

 

The Monasteries would have a big effect on Roman society, for instance it was they who often organized for the Barbarian tribes to be converted to Christianity and as has been already mentioned, they also made many copies of latin literature. Unfortunately after Saint Leo's so-called saviour of Rome from Attila, the christian church began to see this as a victory over the old way and many works of literature were destroyed or altered by the Monks to fit into the new church doctrine. The Monasteries also caused a lot of damage to Roman society as many of the best and brightest people left work in the government or army to join the monasteries, therefore leaving the empire much weaker (and if we agree with Gibbon) this contributed to its downfall.

[Jasminia]

But where did the monasteries start???? How were they distributed throughout the empire? Were there monasteries prior to Christianity?

Yes, monasteries existed before Christianity. The first Buddhist monastery was constructed in the 3rd century BCE in Sri Lanka [Source]. Others may have arisen further east.

 

Since we know that communication and/or trade existed between the Indies and the Greco-Roman world (at least) since the time of Alexander, and between the near east and the indies before that, the concept of monasteries may have made their way west from the far east.

 

As Ursus said, Isis temples (the earliest positivily-identified one in Rome dates to 1st century BCE) were very similar in structure and organization. Large temples, such as the ones at Pompeii and the Campus Martius, had scriptoria as well as schools geared toward the higher education of the priesthood.

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

From what I gather from the courses I had at the university the first monastries are evolutions from the anachoresis, the life of the ermits who lived in the desert, and appear as an evolution of a christian practice.

 

We must look toward Egypt to see the first monasteries in the Mediteranean world, they were first a consequence of the same valleys being the place were all the ermits went. Then some got the idea to put in common some of their task and to elaborate rules to live together.

 

For indeed what does characterise the monastic life is the isolation from the rest of the world and the live under a rule that direct every move in the life of the monk.

 

Temple of Isis, by being built inside of the cities and in contact with it, cannot be described as monachal and the presence of scriptoria and other work rooms isn't a pecularity of the temples of Isis : many collegia, religious or not ( professional associations for exemple ), had in their compound ( called Schola ) learning rooms, libraries, dining rooms, ...

 

I hope it answers a bit more the original question.