A Not So Good Prediction For Europe

[Guest Nectaridus]

Also, as a Parthian shot, I fail to see how the population issue can be connected up in any logical way with Europe's falling birth rate.

 

Vale,

 

Nectaridus

 

Whoops! Of course I meant "the issue of religion and morality can be connected up in any logical way with Europe's falling birth rate."

 

Nectaridus

[metforce]

Link to full article

 

Now a European atheist might be happy to hear that Europing is turning into a post Christian era, but secularism has its unwonderful effects. Note this is not the full article but this is the main point of why religion is needed:

 

Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots and the moral code that derives therefrom is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is "committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself," according to Weigel.

 

United Nations population statistics back him up.

 

Not a single Western European country has a fertility rate sufficient to replace the current population, which demographers say requires 2.1 children per family. Germany, Russia, Spain, Poland and Italy all have rates of about 1.3 children, according to the U.N. The Czech Republic's is less than 1.2, and even Roman Catholic Ireland is at 1.9 children. (The U.S. rate, which has remained stable, is slightly more than 2 children per woman.)

 

Fifteen countries, "mostly located in Southern and Eastern Europe, have reached levels of fertility unprecedented in human history," according to the U.N.'s World Population Prospects 2004 revision.

 

As children grow scarce and longevity increases in Europe, the continent is becoming one vast Leisure World. By 2050, the U.N. projects, more than 40% of the people in Italy will be 60 or older. By mid-century, populations in 25 European nations will be lower than they are now; Russia will lose 31 million people, Italy 7.2 million, Poland 6.6 million and Germany 3.9 million. So Europe is abandoning religion, growing older, shrinking and slowly killing itself. These are signs of a society in eclipse - the Roman Empire writ large. Is this any model for America?

 

In his 2001 book, The Death of the West, conservative commentator

Patrick Buchanan argues that a European-style "de-Christianization of America" is the goal of many liberals - and they are succeeding.

 

Court decisions that have banned school-sponsored prayer, removed many Nativity scenes from public squares, and legalized gay marriage are part of that pattern, as is the legal effort to erase "In God We Trust" from U.S. currency and "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

Europe is showing us where this path leads. It is not the right path for America.

 

More right-wing drabble. A professor of mine had a better explanation for what

[M. Porcius Cato]

Simple mathematics shows that anything that delays when a woman begins to have children will have a dramatic effect on population size over the long term. I'd also add that the population of Europe would not be increased by increasing also the number of nuns and priests!

[Arvioustus]

Have a solution for Europe: we have many immigrants from south of the US you may need...they can save the day

[tflex]

I

Edited January 24, 2006 by tflex

[Arvioustus]

I

[tflex]

Sort of like ancient Rome;) However, many different gene pools do add much if there is 'Pax Romana".

 

I guess, i'm just not a big fan of globalism and imposing a standard on politics, culture, economics. I think eventually European birth rates will drop to the same leve as Japan. Immigration from Asia will replace new births.

[Guest Nectaridus]

"Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots and the moral code that derives therefrom is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is "committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself," according to Weigel."

 

Wonderful case this of begging the question: set up your proposition, chuck in some unconnected evidence, and then say that your initial assumption is proved when the evidence has no bearing at all or relevance to the proposition. Sophistry par excellence!

[Ursus]

Christianity aside, the larger picture is that "traditional" segments of the European population are declining due to low birth rates, while "non traditional" segments are rising due to high birth rates and immigration. The declining "traditional" segments of Europe are by and large increasingly secular, and the "non-traditional" segments of Europe tend to be more religious, especially Islamic.

 

How one views this is up to one's own biases. Certainly there are those who see the numbers of Caucasian Christians in Europe declining in favor of non-Caucasian Islamic types, and are quite concerned with how this will impact the culture of Europe about a 100 years from now if relative statistics remain constant. There are those who indeed suggest Europeans need to get down with Jesus and "be fruitful and multiply" or their grandchildren might be bowing before a version of Islam inspired by Al Queda.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this assessment. But certainly demographic changes have a long term impact on cultures. North America is itself experiencing changes in ethnicity and religion. The WASP majority that ruled America for two hundred years will be a thing of the past. Is this good or bad? It's up to your perspective. But it's naive to suggest that there won't be significant changes that will greatly influence all those who live there.

 

Same with Europe. The shrinking numbers of Caucasian Christians to "other" types may be good or bad depending on your perspective, but it

[Favonius Cornelius]

Religion need only be a philosophy, that is what it is. The world sure as hell does not need more of the insanity that Religion panders to the gullible. What it needs is more education and sensibility, more humanism and communication.

 

I hope that some day all monotheistic religion will die the death it so richly deserves and a new religion/philosophy embracing the clarity of science and logic prevail.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Religion need only be a philosophy, that is what it is. The world sure as hell does not need more of the insanity that Religion panders to the gullible. What it needs is more education and sensibility, more humanism and communication.

 

I hope that some day all monotheistic religion will die the death it so richly deserves and a new religion/philosophy embracing the clarity of science and logic prevail.

Me too.

[tflex]

Religion need only be a philosophy, that is what it is. The world sure as hell does not need more of the insanity that Religion panders to the gullible. What it needs is more education and sensibility, more humanism and communication.

 

I hope that some day all monotheistic religion will die the death it so richly deserves and a new religion/philosophy embracing the clarity of science and logic prevail.

 

I am one who thinks christianity goes hand in hand with science and logic, thats if you read it from it's orginal sources and avoid listening to so called priests and preachers who do nothing but corrupt religion through their radical interpretations just to further their own agendas and denominations.

[Ursus]

I'll just be happy if moderate Islam prevails over fanatical Islam.

[metforce]

I

[tflex]

Be careful on suggesting only native populations reproduce. Nazi Germany was predicated on this. Tolerance and understanding is the only way we can get along with one another and one thing is for certain in my mind, we absolutely have to get along with each other.

 

I agree with you, I was just saying relying heavily on immigration whether in times of peace or war will almost certainly lead to undesirable consequences.

Edited January 27, 2006 by tflex