FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Link to full article Now a European atheist might be happy to hear that Europing is turning into a post Christian era, but secularism has its unwonderful effects. Note this is not the full article but this is the main point of why religion is needed: Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots and the moral code that derives therefrom is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is "committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself," according to Weigel. United Nations population statistics back him up. Not a single Western European country has a fertility rate sufficient to replace the current population, which demographers say requires 2.1 children per family. Germany, Russia, Spain, Poland and Italy all have rates of about 1.3 children, according to the U.N. The Czech Republic's is less than 1.2, and even Roman Catholic Ireland is at 1.9 children. (The U.S. rate, which has remained stable, is slightly more than 2 children per woman.) Fifteen countries, "mostly located in Southern and Eastern Europe, have reached levels of fertility unprecedented in human history," according to the U.N.'s World Population Prospects 2004 revision. As children grow scarce and longevity increases in Europe, the continent is becoming one vast Leisure World. By 2050, the U.N. projects, more than 40% of the people in Italy will be 60 or older. By mid-century, populations in 25 European nations will be lower than they are now; Russia will lose 31 million people, Italy 7.2 million, Poland 6.6 million and Germany 3.9 million. So Europe is abandoning religion, growing older, shrinking and slowly killing itself. These are signs of a society in eclipse - the Roman Empire writ large. Is this any model for America? In his 2001 book, The Death of the West, conservative commentator Patrick Buchanan argues that a European-style "de-Christianization of America" is the goal of many liberals - and they are succeeding. Court decisions that have banned school-sponsored prayer, removed many Nativity scenes from public squares, and legalized gay marriage are part of that pattern, as is the legal effort to erase "In God We Trust" from U.S. currency and "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. Europe is showing us where this path leads. It is not the right path for America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 While its true that our populations are aging as birth rates decrease (hence the tendency for western nations to turn to faster birth rate immigrant groups as supplements), do you suggest that if we can only force everyone to believe in Jesus, then all our problems will go away? What I mean is, we can lay blame for anything, on anyone we'd like, but we can't turn back the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 While its true that our populations are aging as birth rates decrease (hence the tendency for western nations to turn to faster birth rate immigrant groups as supplements), do you suggest that if we can only force everyone to believe in Jesus, then all our problems will go away? What I mean is, we can lay blame for anything, on anyone we'd like, but we can't turn back the clock. Well no, no one should be forced to believe in Jesus. But that we still need the presence of religion or some good morals in our lives so that we do not go astray and become a unmoral society. The effects of being extremely secular can be consequential in the long run. Just my mere opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Well, sorry to counter the statement but the same results can be the product of a society that is strickly following its morals, or is more concerned about its affect on world wide population rather than that of national population. It all really depends on ones standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 acceptance of gay marriage How would this effect the birth rate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I must agree with germanicus, homosexuals aren't going to produce children anyways. It wouldn't make a difference whether they were married or not, would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Even though any of us can disagree with the comments/opinions made, but you can't argue with the statistics that project that the European continent is 'committing demographic suicide' with the extremely low birth rate. Edited January 10, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Sorry Flavius, I just don't see as bleak a picture as this article paints. I also have a problem taking anything seriously that A)-Quotes Patrick Buchanan, and - Uses Catholic doctrine in a misleading manner to support it's arguement. But hey, if you want to doom and gloom about it based on this - you go for it. On a sideline - the world could do with some de-population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Sorry Flavius, I just don't see as bleak a picture as this article paints. I also have a problem taking anything seriously that A)-Quotes Patrick Buchanan, and - Uses Catholic doctrine in a misleading manner to support it's arguement. But hey, if you want to doom and gloom about it based on this - you go for it. On a sideline - the world could do with some de-population. I suppose I have to wait many more years to see if the consequences are true as stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think "de-population" is nothing at all to be valued, but the answer to the problem is not religion but robotics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think "de-population" is nothing at all to be valued, but the answer to the problem is not religion but robotics. Sorry, but what do you mean by robotics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvioustus Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think "de-population" is nothing at all to be valued, but the answer to the problem is not religion but robotics. Sorry, but what do you mean by robotics? I think the Europeans should actively seek Americans to emigrate back Promise us good wine,beer,pasta and ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 no no no, I'm all for Americans emmigrating back to europe, or maybe some of our illegal immigrants going back where they came from too, but what i don't want, Arvioustus, is for the motavation to be immoral issues, people should be moving some place becuase it is a better place, to help that place, not to indulge ones self in its physical plesantries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 ...the same has been said in 1980 when i was in high school about austria, we had 7.6 million people back then... today we have 8.2 million and growing, so hmm, there are lies, more lies and then statistics... there are so many uncertainties that no one can predict, for example, back in 1980 no one would have thought about a civil war in yugoslavia, well it happened and it brought tens of thousands of young people to Austria, so there goes the statistic... back in 1980 no one would have thought the iron curtain would ever fall, well last time i checked it is no longer there, so again influx of people to Austria... btw, i met just a couple of days an american who moved from southern california to my hometown, he said he hasnt regreted it ever since... he sold his average size house near San Diego and can live off that now here for the rest of his life, you know property prices are about a third what they are in the US... he actually started a company to help people from the US to move to Austria who have similar interests then him.. .(i understand not everyone likes to move).. so more people to my country to sum it up the birth rate is not the only factor it is how many people are moving in too, if you have a plus of that then well the population grows although the birth rate might be declining... cheers viggen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nectaridus Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well no, no one should be forced to believe in Jesus. But that we still need the presence of religion or some good morals in our lives so that we do not go astray and become a unmoral society. The effects of being extremely secular can be consequential in the long run. Just my mere opinion. Sorry Flavius, but the implication of this is that religion somehow has a monopoly on morals and on living decently. As one of these European atheists (with three children I hasten to add), I think I make every attempt to live a reasonably moral life - it's just that my morality is based on secular and philosophical tenets, not those of the Christians. My own view is that monotheistic religion has been and still is the cause of much, much more harm than atheism or agnosticism - none of my atheist pals has ever suggested I should join a crusade or jihad to promote our faith. Also, as a Parthian shot, I fail to see how the population issue can be connected up in any logical way with Europe's falling birth rate. Vale, Nectaridus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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