Bona Dea Scandal

[M. Porcius Cato]

What really happened?

[Germanicus]

Clodius snuck in to Caesars place in drag during the festival(no men allowed). Was it to get it on with Caesars wife ? I doubt it. Aurelia (Caesars mother) caught him and hence the scandal. I think he just snuck in as a dare, he was into that kind of thing.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

What really happened?

Why did they call this the Bona Dea scandal? Was it a religious event or something?

(all I know is Bona Dea means 'good goddess' in latin)

Edited January 9, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[P.Clodius]

The ceremony itself is something of a mystery. It was actually first initiated by one of the Claudians, but it was a female only ceremony. It took place in the residence of the Pontifex Maximus and during Clodius' time this would have been Caesar's house. He snook in in drag, probably as a prank. I see Clodius (Claudius as he would have been known then) as an arogant patrician son of a millionaire who didn't know what to do with himself. Today he'd probably be driving his dad's fararri at 120 down Santa Monica Boulavard and telling the cops to go f**k themselves when he was pulled over, etc...Anyway, he was discovered and smuggled out by a slave girl. For some reason, during his trial he said something to the effect "It wasn't me, during that time I was at Cicero's house. Ask him" Cicero of course denied it. Clodius got away with it by bribing the jury. Cicero commenting "How could they possibly walk with so much gold in their pockets!" or something to that effect. Clodius of course never forgot this.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I see Clodius (Claudius as he would have been known then) as an arogant patrician son of a millionaire who didn't know what to do with himself. Today he'd probably be driving his dad's fararri at 120 down Santa Monica Boulavard and telling the cops to go f**k themselves when he was pulled over, etc

 

That's sort of how I see him.

 

I just read Tom Holland's account in Rubicon (pp. 204-211)--this is the kind of thing that's really Holland's forte, so I'd recommend his version. None of my 'serious' Roman histories tell the story properly, so if there's anything that Holland left out, please do make a note of it here.

Edited January 9, 2006 by M. Porcius Cato

[P.Clodius]

I never read Rubicon but it appears I should probably get it as it seems highly recommended by others. There has only ever been one book about Clodius and that's called "The Patrician Tribune". Its one of those very dry, analytical modern books. But it is certainly useful for disecting Clodius' legislative agenda. The "Cicero, Life and Times of Romes Greatest Politician" is a good source too.

[phil25]

In the novel "Caesar's Women" (Part of the "First Man in Rome series") Colleen McCullough gives a good account of what might have happened at the Bona Dea and provides some motivations that i find ctredible.

 

McCullough has a serious purpose in these novels, and her research is deep. So the reconstruction - though fictional - is credible. I recommend it.

 

My own view? That Clodius was out to get "publicity" - he wanted notoriety (maybe for reasons now lost). He may also have been seeking to embarrass Caesar (in whose residence the ceremony was taking place) either personally or as Pontifex maximus - in which role Caesar was responsible for the chastity of the Vestal Virgins. I think Clodius' plan back-fired, or the implications were greater than he had bargained for.

 

Of course, it's always possible Clodius (apparently a very strange individual) was simply curious to know what went on at this most secret of rites...

 

I would also endorse the Holland recommendation. Rubicon is an excellent book and a very good introduction to the period.

 

Phil

[P.Clodius]

Of course, it's always possible Clodius (apparently a very strange individual) was simply curious to know what went on at this most secret of rites...

What do you find strange about him?

[phil25]

Of course, it's always possible Clodius (apparently a very strange individual) was simply curious to know what went on at this most secret of rites...

What do you find strange about him?

 

 

Won't don't I - his tactics, his desire to desert his own class, his odd relationships and willingness to court scandal, his resort to violence.... nasty individual all round as far as I can see.

 

Phil

[P.Clodius]

Won't don't I - his tactics, his desire to desert his own class, his odd relationships and willingness to court scandal, his resort to violence.... nasty individual all round as far as I can see.

 

Well, he was certainly another candidate who incites controversy that's for sure, but remember, he was a product of his times. I hate to keep harping on about Mos Maiorum but it really is central to understanding roman political psyche. Clodius did nothing unprecedented, its just whatever he did, he did to the extreme or so the sources would have it appear on the face of it. His credentials were pristine and why he would seek to have himself "demoted" is unclear. The common explaination is that he sought the office of tribune. The process of demotion to another class was called "Relegatio", and the fact that there was a legal mechanism in place in order for him to do so indicates that he was not the first.

 

Clodius was critisized for employing gangs to ensure things went according to "plan" in the forum. This he certainly did but why he did and how he employed them is unclear. Again, he was not the first to do this, Sulpicius was. Sulpicius employed 600 men whom he called his "Anti-Senate" to afford himself protection. The office of tribune was supposedly sacrosanct but upto Clodius' time there was a significant list of dead tribunes, dead at the hands of senate partisans. What would you or I do if in the same position?

 

His legislative agenda was not as radical as some had feared it would be. There was legislation to bring back guilds that had previously been banned (under Sulla I think), and there was the free distribution of grain once a month to the poor. These first two are clearly aimed at building a solid and significant client base. Other legislation included privelege against arbitrary punishment without due process, curtailing religion and its power to stop assemblies from meeting on "unlucky" days.

 

After his tribunship there was political deadlock in the forums, often involving running battles between the gangs of Clodius and the professional gladiators hired by the senates man, Milo. Clodius carefully followed the cursus honorum and was clearly aiming for higher office (at the time of his death he was running for Praetor), makes you wonder what he'd have done as consul!

 

In the end he was a solid "populares" politician, most certainly not Caesar's man as some have made out to be but was certainly leaning that way as he was obliged to tow the family line after his brother, Appius, pater familias, went to the conference of Luca and came back as one of Caesar's "men".

[phil25]

I don't think I claimed that Clodius was the first, or created precedents, it is just that IMHO the impression one gets when one puts it all together is unpleasant - like something one has stapped in. But it's a purely personal view.

 

Phil