If Celts Or Germanic Tribes Use Of Cavalry

[rvmaximus]

Most scholars do state that the legions weaknesses were their cavalry to be sure and they recruited the Celt/Germans in large numbers to help correct this flaw. However...perhaps just perhaps the Celts would have stopped the Romans or even ended their empire? Also,we know the German tribes wanted to come to to richer warmer Roman lands many times and repulsed. I do not think they used their superior cavalry the Hanibal did for example. Feel the Celts and Germanics fought the Romans to often into Roman strength..thier infantry. How foolish.

[Favonius Cornelius]

I suppose there are a number of instances where the Gauls could have better used their forces, and a brilliant military mind of course could go a long way for the Gauls, but by and large I don't see much room for improvement for them. Personally I think the only place in which cavalry can really have a superior situation over Roman infantry would be open plains coupled with the use of horse archers. Gaul was mostly a hilly and forest laden place, not great for cavalry formation movement and they did not have horse archers from what I have ever heard.

[Arvioustus]

I suppose there are a number of instances where the Gauls could have better used their forces, and a brilliant military mind of course could go a long way for the Gauls, but by and large I don't see much room for improvement for them. Personally I think the only place in which cavalry can really have a superior situation over Roman infantry would be open plains coupled with the use of horse archers. Gaul was mostly a hilly and forest laden place, not great for cavalry formation movement and they did not have horse archers from what I have ever heard.

 

True but they stiil had superior cavalry to the Romans and out numbered the Romans by so much( Celts nad Germans) and had so much trouble against caesar. Amazing.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Again this is where heavy extremely disciplined infantry comes into play. If you can maneuver thousands of men or even better, they do it themselves, then you truly can put good tactics to use and flank the enemy.

[Centurion Legioneer]

Well I think that the Roman Legions would have faired well against the Celtic or Germanic calvary. Though I think that Celtic or Germanic tribes could have at times used their forces better. If the Celtic or Germanic tribes were to create calvary, I doubt they would use them at the necessary times, in the necessary places. But if they would have gotten calvary the Roman Legions would have slaughtered them.

[caldrail]

I would have thought cavalry was at a premium back then, so I doubt that generals on either side would be too willing to charge them headlong into the enemy. Both would have used them in scouting and forcing enemy formations to halt or break up. There's no reason to believe that celtic/germanic cavalry would be any more or less effective than anyone else.... except..... horses were smaller then. More manoeverable? Less momentum in the charge? Slower?

[Centurion Legioneer]

Your right caldrail, though I don't know if the Celts, Germans would bother creating regiments of calvary. They favourable infantry, plus I don't know how they would get all the horses. Their land is hilly and forested, which would make bredding horses tricky, plus calvary would be inefffective. The only way I can think of them getting horses is stealing them, or taking them from defeated armies after battles.

[Kosmo]

Cavalry was an expensive weapon for which you need a lot of training from an early age. Difficult to get this in ancient times except for aristocracy. The shock power of cavalry was much less then later because of small horses and no sadlle/stirrup to take the shock. Romans had decent cavalry themseves, but the glory went always to the legions that were the simbol of roman power.

[Pertinax]

The Celts and Picts liked to "arrive in style" by horseback /chariot but despite the PR of a splendidly built chariot ( the sophistication of Pictish chariots with use of multiple woods for specialised part function is attested by retrieved scottish remains) , they still sought to fight on foot as a direct expression of skill and bravery.This is not to say they had no combat capability when mounted but like the Saxons later -it wasnt their chosen way.

The Brigantian plains are excellent for breeding tough cobby ponies, wide grassland, plenty of water , sparse locals (hence the siting of Bremetenem Veterenorium) -likewise the Cumbrian plain. However the observation regarding cost by CL is accurate-hence the status symbol usage versus "true" assault use.

[Centurion Legioneer]

Yes, I agree with you, the Celts and the Germans favoured combat off of horseback, showing their bravery and sometimes skill.

[caldrail]

The key here is the need for celts/germans to show individual prowess in combat. There wasn't much teamwork - they would rather shout loudly, swing swords around their heads, and run full pelt toward the enemy. Rather like a rioting mob toward police lines. Cavalry require close control to be effective. Thats something the celts/germans rarely had so I've decided that I was initially wrong. Their cavalry wouldn't be particularly effective since most of it would disappeared over the horizon chasing anyone in sight. Thats not a slur on the courage of those men - they had plenty - but a lack of command and control

[Pertinax]

the term "fire discipline" rears its head again as well-the ability NOT to act in situations of great stress when the fight or flight response is screaming to kick in. The next step is to act in concert or to a predetermined drill of co-ordinated arms to maximise lethality ("whites of their eyes" to be visible) .

I also suggest that the Roman Cavalry had another role ,that of tightly coursing a battlefield after an enemy had been put to flight to further maximise fatalities-not the same thing as a headlong chase after someones baggage and worldly goods. I dont suggest plunder wasnt a factor , but I suggest plunder "after the fact".

[caldrail]

Plunder was something the romans took for granted, but then it was pretty well accepted by any army that your soldiers took what they wanted after your enemies defeat. I'm not sure if celtic/german cavalry would halt and throw coins in the air rather than pursue their target to his grave. Tacitus certainly wouldn't have thought that - his perception of germanians was that they preferred to fight and get drunk above all else. Perhaps his educated upper class roman viewpoint is biased, but he had a point.

[Pertinax]

From what ive been reading about Celt and Pict brewing practices im surprised they were actually ever sober, especially when fighting.The Picts pre-battle beer formula explains a little as to why they were always running around half naked ,dancing on fast moving chariot poles.

[caldrail]

Its easy to see the celts/germans as Hells Angels with swords and furry swimming trunks. But despite that, lets remember that they also raised families and provided for them even if they were somewhat brutish.