M. Porcius Cato Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 How can you not love a book with the phrase "healing beer" in the title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 How can you not love a book with the phrase "healing beer" in the title? please note it also said "sacred"-it is your solemn spiritual obligation to consume high quality beer to commune with the Divine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 How can you not love a book with the phrase "healing beer" in the title? please note it also said "sacred"-it is your solemn spiritual obligation to consume high quality beer to commune with the Divine! Â Wow--and there's a book proving this!? I can't wait to show it to my girlfriend! Now I'm not just a beer snob any more; I'm just doing my sacred duty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 How can you not love a book with the phrase "healing beer" in the title? please note it also said "sacred"-it is your solemn spiritual obligation to consume high quality beer to commune with the Divine! Â Wow--and there's a book proving this!? I can't wait to show it to my girlfriend! Now I'm not just a beer snob any more; I'm just doing my sacred duty... Â The only drawback is that she might claim the sacred right of women alone to be responsible for the divine process of fermentation ( men were excluded from the process) -similarly if she herself is the brewer ,she may claim oracular powers and the right to issue impenetrable instructions to you as to the conduct of your daily life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 The only drawback is that she might claim the sacred right of women alone to be responsible for the divine process of fermentation ( men were excluded from the process) -similarly if she herself is the brewer ,she may claim oracular powers and the right to issue impenetrable instructions to you as to the conduct of your daily life. Â Or just think of it as ages of men have: Â "who cares as long as I get to drink it!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Part two of my episodic review of "Sacred Beers" is in the blog area-this week its Mead as a wild Pictish ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 she may claim oracular powers and the right to issue impenetrable instructions to you as to the conduct of your daily life. Â Geez--I thought all women did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 she may claim oracular powers and the right to issue impenetrable instructions to you as to the conduct of your daily life. Â Geez--I thought all women did that. Â never crossed my mind :fish: honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted February 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) So to bring this thread back around a little, I finally looked into the term Polybius used in a fragment (34.9) when discussing what a certain Iberian King's mixing vessels (kraters) were filled with... Â The translation had read 'Barley Wine' which in the modern sense is a very specific term for high alcohol vinous ale. Thinking it was just a convenient choice for the translator, lo & behold that is exactly what Polybius said: Â oinou krithinou -or- 'wine made of barley' Â Of course it makes me wonder if there was a specific reason he called it that. Oh how I would love if they could find residue in the archaeological record to tell us if there was any unique ingredients like was found in that Phyrgian tomb! Edited February 14, 2006 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) So to bring this thread back around a little, I finally looked into the term Polybius used in a fragment (34.9) when discussing what a certain Iberian King's mixing vessels (kraters) were filled with... The translation had read 'Barley Wine' which in the modern sense is a very specific term for high alcohol vinous ale. Thinking it was just a convenient choice for the translator, lo & behold that is exactly what Polybius said:  oinou krithinou -or- 'wine made of barley'  Of course it makes me wonder if there was a specific reason he called it that. Oh how I would love if they could find residue in the archaeological record to tell us if there was any unique ingredients like was found in that Phyrgian tomb!  Thanks, Pantagathus -- I never realised the phrase occurred in Polybios. It was previously used by Herodotos -- it was his name for the beer they drank in Egypt. For Egyptian beer, later Greek authors used the term zythos, but presumably this had not been coined in Herodotos's time.  My assumption was that oinos krithinos was used in Greek, before the specific names became familiar, because it would be the only way to explain to a Greek reader what beer was: a vaguely wine-like drink, with vaguely wine-like powers, made out of barley. But, yes, maybe after all this oinos krithinos was something much more special! I like the idea! Edited February 14, 2006 by Andrew Dalby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted February 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Thanks, Pantagathus -- I never realised the phrase occurred in Polybios. My assumption was that oinos krithinos was used in Greek, before the specific names became familiar, because it would be the only way to explain to a Greek reader what beer was: a vaguely wine-like drink, with vaguely wine-like powers, made out of barley. But, yes, maybe after all this oinos krithinos was something much more special! I like the idea! Â You're welcome Andrew, Â What you mention is why I find Polybius' use of it interesting. I had assumed that by his time, the Mediterranean world was homogenized just enough and the Iberian & Celtic world known enough that any general term beyond 'oinou krithinou' for basic beer would have entered the greater Mediterranean (Latin, Punic, Greek, etc...) vocabulary. Â As an aside, when I refer to the Phrygian tomb find (~700BC), I speak of the residue of an alcoholic beverage made of barley, white muscat grapes, honey and saffron. If the Iberian drink Polybius speaks of would have been like that, then 'oinou krithinou' could be seen as a relatively accurate description and not a generalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok so... I am confused? What was the state of beer in Rome? Did Romans drink it? Did they even make it? Or was it seen as a 'barbarian' drink and Germans who wished to have nothing to do with Rome, (meaning wine), would they only have beer or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok so... I am confused? What was the state of beer in Rome? Did Romans drink it? Did they even make it? Or was it seen as a 'barbarian' drink and Germans who wished to have nothing to do with Rome, (meaning wine), would they only have beer or what? Â I don't know of any evidence for beer in ancient Italy (or Greece). It was made in places where wine wasn't available or had never become popular: northern and western Europe; also Egypt and Mesopotamia, where vines had maybe been difficult to grow. (Though there was also some wine in Egypt and Mesopotamia.) Â Because of the high cost of transport of bulk liquids in ancient times, beer retained its popularity in such places even during the Roman Empire. Wine would have been expensive, so people who migrated had to get used to the local drink. Beer was certainly drunk by legionaries etc. in these places, either from choice, or because they couldn't afford wine most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neos Dionysos Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok but was drinking beer looked down upon? Or in cases where wine was availble was it looked down upon as being a 'non-Roman' drink? Thanks for answers though Dalby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Beer, cows milk and butter were all "looked down" upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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