Time Zones In The Roman Empire

[bennettrgd]

Hello,

 

During biblical times while Palestine was under Roman occupation, was all time kept locally using a sun dial, or did the Roman Army keep the same time as in Rome every where thru out the Empire?

[M. Porcius Cato]

Hello,

 

During biblical times while Palestine was under Roman occupation, was all time kept locally using a sun dial, or did the Roman Army keep the same time as in Rome every where thru out the Empire?

 

Time zones were invented by the railroad companies to allow for standardized time tables. Why would a Roman legionary in a back-water like Palestine care whether or not he was sweating at Roman time or at Palestinian time?

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

It was only in the army that the Romans counted time, the night was divided into four watches and the guard was changed at the end of each watch. So when you read latin text, it states it by like this id est " on the third watch." I can't remember the exact time they divided into, just that they made the day into four parts.

The Romans most probably used a horologium wherever they went. They just considered it as day and night, but the army is different as I mentioned.

Most importantly, time only mattered to the Legions.

 

Wait nvm, now I remember. It was the night that was divided into four watches, from sunset to sunrise, was divided into four watches (vigiliae), numbered prima(on the first watch), ending at 9:00 pm; secunda(on the second watch, ending at midnight(12am); tertia(on the third watch), from midnight to 3 A.M.; and quarta(on the fourth watch), from

3am to sunrise. In the earlier times, and probably in Caesar's army, the password of the sentinels, different each night, was written on slips of wood, which were given by the commander to the military tribunes, and passed by these to the men on duty.

 

This is a good link on what you want to find.

Edited December 20, 2005 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[bennettrgd]

It was only in the army that the Romans counted time, the night was divided into four watches and the guard was changed at the end of each watch. So when you read latin text, it states it by like this id est " on the third watch." I can't remember the exact time they divided into, just that they made the day into four parts.

The Romans most probably used a horologium wherever they went. They just considered it as day and night, but the army is different as I mentioned.

Most importantly, time only mattered to the Legions.

 

Wait nvm, now I remember. It was the night that was divided into four watches, from sunset to sunrise, was divided into four watches (vigiliae), numbered prima(on the first watch), ending at 9:00 pm; secunda(on the second watch, ending at midnight(12am); tertia(on the third watch), from midnight to 3 A.M.; and quarta(on the fourth watch), from

3am to sunrise. In the earlier times, and probably in Caesar's army, the password of the sentinels, different each night, was written on slips of wood, which were given by the commander to the military tribunes, and passed by these to the men on duty.

 

This is a good link on what you want to find.

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

So, within the Roman Army in the occupied territories, was it always the same time? i.e. Was the 3rd watch of the night being observed at the same exact moment thru out the empire, or was some attempt made at observing "local time"?

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Thanks for your reply.

 

So, within the Roman Army in the occupied territories, was it always the same time? i.e. Was the 3rd watch of the night being observed at the same exact moment thru out the empire, or was some attempt made at observing "local time"?

 

Logically, the Roman Legions would observe local time because as with the time zones, night and day differ. It really mattered when night began where they were stationed and when morning began.

[Lost_Warrior]

How did they tell what time it was? Sundials don't work very well at night....and you can only use the stars if it isn't cloudy.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the Roman time/day. I would assume that they went in concordance with the vernal equinox and summer solstice.Winter the days are longer, so the night was early and 5:00 seems a reasonale time to begin the watch. Everything started at night, I doubt the Romans even bothered with trying to find out the specific time.

Edited January 14, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus

[Sextus Roscius]

I assume they just used sundials, so time was realitive only to the person's position. It wouldn't matter at that time period becuase people simply couldn't travel fast enough to have effective lag time between trips, simple as that.

[Andrew Dalby]

I assume they just used sundials, so time was realitive only to the person's position. It wouldn't matter at that time period becuase people simply couldn't travel fast enough to have effective lag time between trips, simple as that.

 

That's it. And you couldn't possibly know, anyway, whether you were marking the 'third watch' at the same time as someone in Rome thousands of miles away. Or have any reason to try.

[eggers]

I assume they just used sundials, so time was realitive only to the person's position. It wouldn't matter at that time period becuase people simply couldn't travel fast enough to have effective lag time between trips, simple as that.

 

That's it. And you couldn't possibly know, anyway, whether you were marking the 'third watch' at the same time as someone in Rome thousands of miles away. Or have any reason to try.

They couldn't move around the empire fast enough to suffer from jet lag, and they couldn't tell the time at night. They just timed how long they were on duty using things like sand glasses or water clocks. I imagine the concept of time zone was completely alien to them. They did use sun dials during the day, and timers at night so they did have a vague idea what the time was using basis maths. so, logically they used local time. If you could go back in time and magically zip between outpost all along the frontier you'd probably notice soldiers coming off duty and going on duty all the time, just according to local time.

Edited January 16, 2006 by eggers

[phil25]

In Britain, until the early C19th, every town kept its own time - noting the actual time from the heavens etc.

 

As a previous poster has observed it was the railways, and the need for timetables, that caused the |UK to adhere to a single timezone.

 

Oxford, in terms of latitude, is nine minutes behind London. Even today the bell of Christ Church collge is rung at nine minutes past nince each evening - 9.00pm precisely in Oxford, but nine minutes later according to GMT!!

 

Don't forget though, that in addition to time, the seasons were out of kilter for Romans until Caesar reformed the calendar. You could have winter in Sextilis, and summer in December!!

 

Phil

[Onasander]

I don't see how the roman military could of made timezones, logistically the clocks would never of made it far enough to keep their accuracy, and I doubt the romans set up astronomical calculations to figure out the exact time...

 

however, in an citizen army, you do need to partition the watches out equally, so I suspect each commander set up his own SOP for dividing the day and night shifts equally(it can't possibly be universal- clouds block the stars, the cold would freeze the waterclocks, seasonal signs, like insects awakening would change, even patroling with measured steps would differ given if the soldier is injured or tired/well rested.

 

Perhaps they took a less complicated approach as they do in the US army while in garrision.... 24 hour long CQ and Staff Duty shifts.

[sullafelix]

The chinese had waterclocks by now, and there were the candle clocks too. I expect thats how they told the time at night. The concept of time zones really only became relevant when one started to be able to travel far enough fast enough to beat the sun...not a Roman issue they were good but not that good.

 

So no such thing as world time or local time only time

 

Sulla felix

Edited February 22, 2006 by sullafelix

[caldrail]

There were no time zones. The romans didn't really need them, nor did they appreciate there was any need for them. They probably assumed that day/night was the same everywhere, although a few astute scholars and travellers may have noted the length of daylight varied depending how north or south you were.

[Kosmo]

My limited knoledge is that they did not have the modern concept of 60 minutes an hour.

The day was divided from morning to evening in an equal numer of hours, but of course, a day it's much longer in august then in december even in Rome, so an hour will be longer or shorter depending on season.