The Picti & The Scoti

[Pantagathus]

As requested by Pertinax... :pimp:

 

Part 1:

 

I find it amazing that in lands that became areas of such importance throughout the Christian era, there can still be such uncertainty as to origins of the people who inhabited Britain & Ireland before Caesar and the Roman Empire arrived on scene.

 

Even during the Roman era, not much was really documented and what clues we have to go on come from a very small selection of ancient authors. Personally, I find it one of the most confounding lines of investigations due to the fact that once the documentation of this history began, so many competing forces attempted to write the history with varying spins that we are left unfortunately with various, intriguing legends with dubious historical value

Edited December 9, 2005 by Pantagathus

[Pertinax]

Excellent stuff.The Danubian episodes are probably vaguely remembered by those interested in later periods , but I doubt that many people wil keep the maritime episodes in mind because in many ways the pattern of diffusion is alien to the conventional wisdom of some historians. It has been mentioned elsewhere about the disinclination of the Romans to proceed by sea in preference to "hard" miles and built infrastructure as a concommitant to economic progres, however if your technology is a flexible/indirect maritime landfall "footprint" you can pop up all over the map ( and pretty quickly at that). Those a-Viking,for example from a late period, had a landfall and influence pattern almost the mirror image of "conventional" approaches to Britain.

 

The Caledonii are interesting do we have a racial group centerd unit or a federal combination of similar "lifestyles"? Certainly tribal identities at a later time (55BC) were surprisingly diverse.The Pictii are always said to have been pushed into Brittania inferior , but there culture certainly wasnt a "townie" lifestyle ( though their hairstyles would take some beating until circa 1977-if you recall the first man through the door in Gladiator after Prospero has taken on his new shipment of slaves, the spikey bleached look was en vouge with the pictii).

[Pantagathus]

Part 2:

 

The names Picti and Scoti don

[Pertinax]

just a brief note before more praise is heaped on The Bird Of Good Omen. The Pictiish technologies were quite sophisticated , and although they lived in such an apparently footlose manner when they attempted a rtechnological task it was achieved with skill -recovered chariot wheels have been found with separate parts of 5 different types of wood according to the part of the wheel , and the use of hide and thongs to give suspension and versatility to such vehicles.

 

As far as the Bacchic orgies go we have one coming up soon on the Solstice Day, Brigantia prosper our flocks!

 

Praiseworthy material! I scatter drops of Achel Blond to your continued Health!

Edited December 9, 2005 by Pertinax

[Pantagathus]

Those a-Viking,for example from a late period, had a landfall and influence pattern almost the mirror image of "conventional" approaches to Britain.

 

The Caledonii are interesting do we have a racial group centerd unit or a federal combination of similar "lifestyles"? Certainly tribal identities at a later time (55BC) were surprisingly diverse.

 

First off, I think we are thinking the same thing on the first point. The Anglo-Saxons also flowed into Britain the same way that the main Celtic population had as did the nameless Neolithics from the east...

 

As for the Caledonii (& Picti & Scoti for that matter), the later writers seemed to just be satisfied lumping sub-tribes all together. This was either cause they were apathetic to detailing the accounts of the 'rude barbarians' or there was enough racial hegemony between these people for those general distinctions to suffice.

 

I of course lean towards the hegemonistic point of view.

 

Furthermore, as usual, thank you for the kind words my friend! When it comes to the Pictish technology, we must also remember that these were the ancestors of the Megalith builders...

 

These were no yokles though the early Christians demonized them... Their goldwork from the Bronze Age is quite exquisite!

 

As for the upcoming Saturnalia, I am already planning my menu & making beverage selections.

 

BTW: Last night I drank a Gouden Christmas... Absolutely delicious!

Edited December 9, 2005 by Pantagathus

[Pertinax]

I suppose the analogy with the Native Peoples of America is worth mentioning again , if you are pushing forward into a territory occupied by predominantly "organic/degradable" technology and oral tradition ,( being the possesor of "hard " technology and functional literacy ) the nicety of social distinctions will be lost on you as you occupy land rather than pass over it without permanent attachment. If iI can be trite in approaching the Native Americans, in "Little Big Man" (the book) the point is made that the life of the Indian is not savagery without social rule but the most precise and nuanced ballet of manners and social stratification, as rigid in its way as any settled society, I suspect the intense nature of such a society to have been approached in Brittania Inferior also.

Some more Druidic information would be interesting , they tend to get buried in new age mumbo jumbo, I suspect they were knowing people with a dogma blended of practical medicine, poetry and earth worship.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Pertinax

[Pantagathus]

I suppose the analogy with the Native Peoples of America is worth mentioning again , if you are pushing forward into a territory occupied by predominantly "organic/degradable" technology and oral tradition ,( being the possesor of "hard " technology and functional literacy ) the nicety of social distinctions will be lost on you as you occupy land rather than pass over it without permanent attachment. If iI can be trite in approaching the Native Americans, in "Little Big Man" (the book) the point is made that the life of the Indian is not savagery without social rule but the most precise and nuanced ballet of manners and social stratification, as rigid in its way as any settled society, I suspect the intense nature of such a society to have been approached in Brittania Inferior also.

 

The analogy is extremely precise. When I went back (after my Ligurian thread) and read the chapters of Barry Cunliffe's Facing the Ocean on these early groups in an effort to find clues to their connections through archaeology I was astonished.

 

I wrote a term paper in college on the Pacific Northwest Indians for North American Archaeology and am pretty familiar with why they were the way they were. Why for instance they built log homes, why they had Potlatch ceremonies, why their art was the way it was, etc...

 

They seemed to the Europeans as more civilized than the plains Indians because the enviroment they lived in molded them that way. The sea & the forests provided everything they needed. They were not often in want of anything. Farming isn't the only thing that causes people to settle down...

 

This same thing happend on the Atlantic coast of Europe, Ireland & Britain during the mesolithic. These people stayed in one place because there was no reason not to. They had everything they needed within a 30 mile radius of their settlements. Shell middens in Portugal, Ireland and in Brittany show permanent occupation of certain sites spanning centuries. Their diets were extremely healthy and extremely diverse.

 

Over time it's obvious they developed very intricate social gracess and when considering grave finds of infants buried with elaborate grave goods, the implication is social status that could be attained at birth. But, for totally different reasons than other societies. Just like in the Pacific Northwest, they could devote more time to art and social interaction because of the ideal setting they lived in.

 

Even the eloborately decorated wood paddles that have been found remind one of the Pacific Northwest Natives...

 

BTW, Little Big Man is a tremendous book

[WotWotius]

I have recently written an essay for a college project on Greco-Roman writtings about the Celts. As this vaguely relates to this forum i have submitted it.

 

From the Celt thread... Celt Essay