Weapons

[tvihiocus]

And even if you can't just simply extract it as directly usable, you can extract the metal part and reuse it, even if you need a new shaft for some spears. Easier and faster to reuse what you can than make new from scratch, and especially if another battle is imminent, it's the only choice. In all, the pilum must've been quite effective in combat when properly wielded like the Romans did (heck, I sure love mowing down enemy formations in Rome: Total War with hails of pila), whether they bended or not - it doesn't really matter much. After all, hails of arrows were effective too, even if the arrows didn't break when hitting the ground or whatever (so enemy archers could theoretically shoot them back if out of arrows of their own). And the pila were used in much, much closer range where the enemy probably couldn't simply throw them back because the battle turned to melee after throwing the pila.

[caldrail]

So, a spear/javelin is like any other whether it had a bendy point or not. The real advantage is the ability of a pilum to de-shield the enemy, and to prevent him throwing a volley back. A tactical advantage rather than weapon superiority.

[filthy_peasant]

1.the bassic weapons of the legionaire(gladius,pilum,and i guess scutum)

2.the sarrisa pike in a macedonian phalanx. if i were placed in the center of the front line before battle i dont know if i would have the nerve to step twards that damn formation.

3.bronze plates on elephant tusks. as if the elephant isnt bad enough

[Ovidius]

My favorites:

 

1. Gladius Hispaniensis (gladius)

2. Scutum (the semi-cylindrical, rectangular roman shield, Imagine bashing your opponent with its shield-boss!)

3. Pilum (I like it's penetrating power!)

[mquish]

[

. Although when used as such it does require some space around you to wield, but if you have that, it's very efficient. Obviously for a legionaire, though, you couldn't do that with the large shield anyway, nor in a tightly-packed formation.

 

If you are going to state a fact make sure you know what you are talking about. A legionare didnt need any space to through his speer as it was through from above its head therfore needing no room laterally to through it. The romans had this thought about before you and I were even born and besides i dont think they would have not thought about this before sending an entire army out to fight. I have not seen or heard of a document from ancient roman times stating, "The romans lost the battle of '''''''''' because they forgot they couldnt throw there spears in a thightly packed formation.

[Pantagathus]

mquish,

 

Just becuase you disagree with how another poster articulated his/her point doesn't mean you have to be so testy about it...

 

You can prove your contrary point and be civil at the same time.

[Primus Pilus]

mquish,

 

Just because you disagree with how another poster articulated his/her point doesn't mean you have to be so testy about it...

 

You can prove your contrary point and be civil at the same time.

 

I post in general support of Pantagathus observation and not to single anyone out. Sometimes its important to reiterate our forum rules, which first and foremost includes being courteous to fellow members.

 

Forum Guidelines

[tvihiocus]

If you are going to state a fact make sure you know what you are talking about.

If you're going to bash my posting - at least read the post properly first. I was referring to wielding the spear like a staff, which does require space. Obviously as a one-handed stabbing or throwing weapon it doesn't require much space and could be used in tight formations, but that was not what I was talking about. It should've been rather clear if you indeed read the whole paragraph of the post, and not just the lines you quoted; "...to be used as a staff. Although when used as such [a staff]..."

Edited March 17, 2006 by tvihiocus

[Germanicus]

How much did Pila weigh ?

[Pertinax]

much variation- is the real answer, heavy/light versions existed

 

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/pilum.html

 

check this well made site out , this should give a good account of variations and usage

Edited March 17, 2006 by Pertinax

[military]

Thanks for all of the posts. This really helped me alot.........

[mquish]

If you are going to state a fact make sure you know what you are talking about.

If you're going to bash my posting - at least read the post properly first. I was referring to wielding the spear like a staff, which does require space. Obviously as a one-handed stabbing or throwing weapon it doesn't require much space and could be used in tight formations, but that was not what I was talking about. It should've been rather clear if you indeed read the whole paragraph of the post, and not just the lines you quoted; "...to be used as a staff. Although when used as such [a staff]..."

 

Im sorry for misunderstanding your post. I should have read it more thoroughly. No hard feelings?

 

[

Just because you disagree with how another poster articulated his/her point doesn't mean you have to be so testy about it...

 

Im sorry for the manner in which i replied. I have a habit of bringing out the worst in the phrasing of my sentences. I am truly sorry. I didnt mean to be rude.

 

mquish,

 

Just because you disagree with how another poster articulated his/her point doesn't mean you have to be so testy about it...

 

You can prove your contrary point and be civil at the same time.

 

I post in general support of Pantagathus observation and not to single anyone out. Sometimes its important to reiterate our forum rules, which first and foremost includes being courteous to fellow members.

 

Im sorry about the manner of my reply. I was having a bad day; which is no exuse, but am none the less sorrow.

[Primus Pilus]

Im sorry about the manner of my reply. I was having a bad day; which is no exuse, but am none the less sorrow.

 

No worries mate. Don't beat yourself up over it, just keep it cordial going forward and all is well

[tvihiocus]

Im sorry for misunderstanding your post. I should have read it more thoroughly. No hard feelings?

Of course no hard feelings, just wanted to set the record straight, so to speak. Misunderstandings tend to happen every now and then to everyone.

[mquish]

From a practical point of view, it's actually irrelevant whether the pilum bent or not. Connolly says it couldn't be extracted from the shield so it doesn't need to bend to render the shield useless.

 

Interesting because if the pilum could not be extracted from a shield, then why would the romans waste effort on designing and making them? Also, not all enemies have shields and spears that fall into the ground (or someone else dare I say it) would otherwise still be usable. Soldiers are practical people, if it worked then they'd use it - they did. I get the impression Mr Connolly is making a meal out of his weapon research, expert or not.

 

This is just a theory and by all means correct me for any wrong factual statement put forward. Its just something i was thinking about. Maybe the pilum wasnt suppose to bend, but because the metals used at the time(mainly bronze,copper) were weak alloys, they werent strong enough to withstand the force of impact.