Late Empire Books

[Neos Dionysos]

Can anyone tell me of rather good Late Empire, (say 230-500ad), books that are out there. There is always a ton of information on the Republic and Early and High Empire but it seems to be real hard to find anything on the Late Empire and the fall of the Western half. Can anyone refer to me any texts or books on the period? I have Ammianus' account and also Gibbons' classic writings and am looking for any other primary or secondary sources etc. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Neos Dionysos

[Viggen]

http://www.unrv.com//book-review/the-fall-of-rome.php

 

and you can even asks a question to the author here in the forum

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2549

 

cheers

viggen

[DanM]

I completely sympathize with your frustration. The later Empire is also my area of interest and its kinda the red-headed stepchild of the Roman history family.

 

If you are looking for a light, fun read that gives a good but general account of events, then you cannot beat John Julius Norwich's 3 volume series on Byzantium. This book is more entertaining than a lot of fiction. I think Norwich is a treasure if for no other reason than his ability to make a dry subject come alive.

 

If you want to get into a deep, technical study of everything from tax policy to governmental structure, then I would highler recommend AHM Jones' 2 volume set titled "The Later Roman Empire". His books read a little like a VCR manual, but he has great details in there if you are willing to look for them.

 

Also Bury wrote a nice book on the Later Roman Empire. I'm not as big of a Gibbon fan as many others, but he probably wrote the most famous book on the subject.

 

Most of the other books I have read on the subject are a very distant fifth place or worse. In my opinion they are not worth mentioning.

 

If you want to get into any subject that is more specific and less of an overview, then let me know and I will see what I can suggest.

 

Best of luck.

[Neos Dionysos]

I have Norwich's books, the short history and then the hardcover books of the trilogy. They are indeed good, though as the titles say they are more focused on the East and the future Byzantine state rather than on the west. I have heard of Jones books, and I am looking to try and get a hold of them to read. Not much else I have come across except some that I was lucky enough to stumble upon, though I am trying. Sad thing is, many books I can find in bibliographies are no where near avalible for me and so I am really trying to see if I can get a copy on CD or somethign of the books from the Libaray of Congress since I can see they have them, and they claim they will get you copies of books so, we'll see. Thanks for any suggestions.

[DanM]

If you get AHM Jones' "The Later Roman Empire", then it will occupy your time for a while. Its very long and very detailed. And he gives equal weight to the eastern and western halves of the empire until the west was overrun. Even then, he gives and excellent detailed account of the various barbarian kingdoms that succeded the western empire.

 

I have run accross much the same types of problems finding books as you describe. My suggestion would be to try Amazon and Alibris. They are both pretty good. Also try a Google seach by the author (first & last name). That could also possibly be of help.

 

One of the frustrating things for me was seeing all of these cool books in the bibliographies that were only offered in French or German. I almost started to learn French just so I could have access to more information on the later roman empire.

 

If I can be of any further help just let me know. It sounds like you and I are covering a lot of the same ground in our searches.

 

Best of luck.

[Neos Dionysos]

Yeah I know, part of the reason I actually took German in HS and in college, (after so many years I'm still not to good at yet... ), was so I can read a lot of the books and journals written in German on the subject. I'm focusing a lot and conditions for the collaspe of the west and trying to find out why. Of course there are many reasons that all worked together to create the current atmosphere, but after coming across some info I have kinda been trying to prove a theory of mine where Barbarization was a much more positive aspect of the late empire and not the terribly negative event that many people like to label it; and another part was that Rome was ineffective in really Romanizing the territories of the West and so it was very hard for them to really be united under one people, the East on the other hand had Alexander who first united them and so it was not a new idea or organization to unite so many different people under one banner than the West...

 

Like I said, I'm trying to really get a lot of info on anything from the Western Half in the late empire and mainly sources of great detail and academic nature so anything that may seem dry and filled with facts is very exciting to me. LoL. What are your main interests in the late empire?

[Viggen]

Some books you might find interesting...

Kingdoms of the Empire: The Integration of Barbarians in Late Antiquity (Transformation of the Roman World, Vol 1)

 

The Later Roman Empire, 284-602: A Social, Economic, and Administrative Survey

 

Decline and Fall of the Roman City

 

People and Identity in Ostrogothic Italy, 489-554

[DanM]

My favorite time is maybe the very end of the 5th century and the first half of the 6th century. I am of the school of thought that Justinian made a lot of flashy, but unsound decisions that led to a faster decline of the Empire of his day. I think he was a remarkably talented man, but a man of flawed vision and flawed judgement. So a lot of how I look at things is from the perspective of an arm chair quarterback. How could Justinian have done things differently? More specifically, what choices could have been made by Justinian that might have kept the Empire on a more sound footing leading up the rise of Islam? If the Empire had not been so severely weakened by the Persian wars leading up to the Arab conquest, I think it is very likely that it could have held its ground.

 

As for your interest in the Western Empire, I think your area of interest will be even tougher than my own. Since I focus more on the 6th century, my interest is naturally more on the eastern side of things. If you are interested in the West, however, why don't you check out my post here regarding my speculation on the role that periodic climate changes might have had on the decline of the Western Empire. I would be interested to hear your perspective.

[Neos Dionysos]

Have you ever considered the possible "what if", that the occurance of events that could have come from if Justinian and Amalansutha's plan had gone through and she reached Eastern Roman lands and was then in the court of the emperor. I think there could be strong evidence to show she would have been able to get Justinian to leave Theodora and take Amalansutha as his wife. Obviously she was enough of a threat from Theodora's point of view that it is highly alleged she was partially behind her arrest and removal of power by Amalansutha's cousin and upon Justinian threatening action if she be not returned to the throne, Theodora is said to have sent a secret message to the cousin saying to do away with Theodoric's daughter and to not worry because Justinian will do nothing. She was then strangled and Justinian used her death to invade Italy. She was of noble birth, thought herself a Roman, acted and behaved like a true Roman and was so highly educated she could converse with Justinian about Roman Administrative laws in Latin or Greek, that is something Theodora could never even hope to do and then the comparison of the daughter of Theodoric, which means he can conviciably lay claim to rulership over Italy w/o any bloodshed while all Theodora was, was a circus preformer and one of terrible reputation if we beleive Procopius. If this happened, there would have been no great devastation of Italy, the economy would be still be rather strong and the coffers full of gold and the army in the East ready to face any potential threat with one of the greatest generals of the ancient world instead of being in the West draining manpower and resources.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Neos Dionysos

[DanM]

Your exactly right. I have spent a lot of time thinking along these lines. This is one of several scenarios that could have happened if Justinian had made different choices or had been someone else.

Edited December 1, 2005 by DanM