The Lombards / Langobarden

[LEG X EQ]

The Lombards were a West-Germanic tribe that originated from scandinavia (south-west sweden), they left scandinavia under their leader Ibor. The terms were to conquer new lands. They settled in the lower elbe region (north-west germany). The name LOMBARD is the english version of the original german name, "LANGOBARDEN". Langobarden means "Long Beards". The myth goes that the Winniler (lombards) were facing an army twice the size oh theirs. The winnilers believed in the Nordic Gods, and so they prayed to WOTAN (odin), wotan replied that he would grant victory to those, whose name he will call out first at the battle field. The Winniler women than prayed to FREYJA (wife of wotan), Freayja replied, that the women should tie their hairs infront of their faces. At the battle field, wotan saw the winniler women, and was puzzled, what he saw were females with facial hair, so he asked his wife, "who are these longbeards" freyja replied,"you called out their name out, now grant them victory" . From there on the Winniler were Langobards (longbeards,lombards). The Lombards were great warriors and won alot of battles, a historic battle was fought in this region against the Vandals, and the vandals were crushed, this is the battle the myth is reffering to. The region (harburg-L

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

The Crown of the Lombards is also very interesting:

The Iron Crown of Lombardy is so called from a narrow band of iron within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the (jesus) Crucifixion. This very thin band is about one centimeter (three-eighths of an inch) broad. According to tradition, the nail was first given to Emperor Constantine by his mother Helena, who discovered the Cross. How it fell into the hands of the Lombard kings is not well explained. The outer circlet of the crown is of six gold and enamel segments of beaten gold, joined together by hinges and set with precious stones that stand out in relief, in the form of crosses and flowers.

 

 

So no missunderstandigs come up, i wrote the text, just the part of the Iron Crown is from Wikipedia.

 

I'm pretty sure, but it was more likely that the nail Helena gave to Constantine was actually put in the Spear of Longinus, not some Lombard crown, though that can happen.

But anyways, good info digging LEG X EG, I would read your posts anytime. By the way, what was this anti-pope that Barbarossa established?

[Tobias]

"In June 1158, Frederick set out upon his second Italian expedition, accompanied by Henry the Lion and his fearsome Saxons, which resulted in the establishment of imperial officers in the cities of northern Italy, the revolt and capture of Milan, and the beginning of the long struggle with Pope Alexander III, which resulted in the excommunication of the emperor in 1160. In response, Frederick declared his support for Antipope Victor IV."-Via Wikipedia

 

Babarossa pretty much wanted the wholehearted support of the Papacy (i.e. a puppet pope) to justify his actions to the Christians of Italy and his other territories. When Alexander III refused to do so, Babarossa became annoyed an installed his own pope. Both popes of course promptly excommunicated each other , and this caused further disruption for Babarossa.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Tobias

[LEG X EQ]

@Tobias

Exactly, Victor IV was the "Anti" pope. There was another key moment in the whole scenario, and that was when Frederick I. Barbarossa (friedrich in german) attacked Alessandria, a city in north italy named after the pope. That attack basically ignited the whole ghibelline - guelph conflict.

 

 

This is a good site about Lombards, its an Milanese reenact group. This site Lists all the Battles and wars of the Lombards. But its in italian. so only italian or spanish speakers can fully understand it.

 

http://www.winniler.net/guerre.html

 

 

 

 

thanks for the replies.

[LEG X EQ]

@Tobias

After the defeat of the lombard kings North Italy was ruled by the holy roman emperors.

It wasnt really about what Barbarossa did to the christians, since he was a strong believer himselve (later died in the crusades). he really didnt do anything against the christians. he just wanted total control of both State and church. With that he demanded that the city of rome and the Vatican states should be ruled by him. This demand was met with outrage by pope Alexander III. Pope Alexander III called for uprisings against the emperor. That, and the attack of Alessandria were the main reasons for the split up between Pope Loyals (Guelphs) and Emperor Loyals (Ghibellines). propably in 1172 the Lega Lombarda was created, a Guelph Union of northern Italian Fighters and Knights. The lega won the battle of urbino 1174 against an Northern italian ghibelline army. And in 1176 the Lega Lombarda under command of Alberto Da Giussano, met Fredericks massive army at Legnano (suburb milan). Lega Lombarda were Milanese, Veronese and Bergamask Knights, Farmers and Veterans. The Rule of Frederick ended at Legnano were he was completely defeated. The Victory of the Lega Lombarda left Frederick with nothing, Barbarossa who wanted everything now had nothing, no control over state or church in northern italy.

 

@FLavius Valerius Constantinus

Im not quite sure if we mean the same thing, but isnt the spear of Longinus (Heilige Lanze in german) the spear that the roman centurion (longinus) used to check if Jesus Blood already became watery by stabbing him in the ribs? it could be that we mean two different things, but th Iron Crown of Lombardy is presumably made by the NAIL that pierced Jesus right hand on the cross. The crown is not just "some" crown , this crown is considered sacred by all Christian Churches, and it is said that no rust ever appeard on the iron.

[Guest Frumentario]

Tradition said that S.Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, during the funeral panegyric for Emperor Teodosius, said that Helena found the Crucifixion's nails and with one of that made a crown ("diadema intexuit"). That happened in the XIII year of S. Silvestro papacy (326 d.C.).

Crown itself was probably made in Costantinople during the V century.

 

Sorry for the bad english!

 

Ave atque vale.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Frumentario

[LEG X EQ]

@Frumentario

Thanks for that information, but are you sure that the iron crown was made in costantinople, because the decoration and art on the crown is germanic, with refferences to Lombard fibles.

[Favonius Cornelius]

The Lombard crown, does it still exist?

[LEG X EQ]

Yes, its kept in the treasures of the Monza(suburb of milan) Cathedral.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Yes, its kept in the treasures of the Monza(suburb of milan) Cathedral.

 

Cool, have any links to a picture? Has it ever been determined that the crown does indeed have a band of iron in its center?

[LEG X EQ]

Just look at the Very first post, at the end I put a couple of links of pictures.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Just look at the Very first post, at the end I put a couple of links of pictures.

 

Ah so you did, and I see the iron band as well. Is it known what year it was created? Talk about priceless artifact!

[rvmaximus]

The Lombards were a West-Germanic tribe that originated from scandinavia (south-west sweden), they left scandinavia under their leader Ibor. The terms were to conquer new lands. They settled in the lower elbe region (north-west germany). The name LOMBARD is the english version of the original german name, "LANGOBARDEN". Langobarden means "Long Beards". The myth goes that the Winniler (lombards) were facing an army twice the size oh theirs. The winnilers believed in the Nordic Gods, and so they prayed to WOTAN (odin), wotan replied that he would grant victory to those, whose name he will call out first at the battle field. The Winniler women than prayed to FREYJA (wife of wotan), Freayja replied, that the women should tie their hairs infront of their faces. At the battle field, wotan saw the winniler women, and was puzzled, what he saw were females with facial hair, so he asked his wife, "who are these longbeards" freyja replied,"you called out their name out, now grant them victory" . From there on the Winniler were Langobards (longbeards,lombards). The Lombards were great warriors and won alot of battles, a historic battle was fought in this region against the Vandals, and the vandals were crushed, this is the battle the myth is reffering to. The region (harburg-L

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Uh Rvmaximus, I think you're forgetting that these were two different time periods.

[LEG X EQ]

So this makes Northern Italians really German?

 

Wouldnt go that far. To claim ALL Northern Italians are of Germanic Blood. The Numbers of Langobards compared to the local Italic-Roman population was 3 to 1 for the Italics. So the Mass Majority was Romance.

The Langobards were the ones that addepted to Latin and to local customs. And the total Fusion was straining, but it eventually happend. The langobards influenced the Nothern Italian Romance culture with Architecture( The Romanic and Germanic element fused in Architectrure in Northern Italy) and Linguistics, the modern Milanese dialect and the southern Swiss dialect(Ticino) are Lombard dialects(fusion of the germanic dialect and Latin) and belong to the Romance Languages. There was no other ethnic fusion in Northern italy, except for that. But the Lombard germanic blood went up in the Romance blood. So modern North-Italians have a good size trace of Germanic Blood. And a lot of Northern Italian culture and architecture is Romanic-Langobard(germanic) fused.

 

There are further debates about ethnic fusion in europe. Especially in Spain. The spanish for the most part claim to be the direct decendents of the West-Goths. This theory upsetted most swedish nationalists, because they claim that they are the only decendents of the Goths. I also dont buy it, that the modern spaniard is of West-Gothic blood. Due to the fact that they have been conquered and ruled by the Moors (african/arabic moslems) for houndreds of years and that Madrid was founded by Moslems and the Moors had a huge influence as such, after the Gothic Kingdoms. and the Goths were pushed into Spain by the Franks, so not many goths survived the Frank battles in the First place.

 

Rennasance more of a Geramn ethnic thing than Italic/Roman?

 

well, the Renaissance was more Central italian(Tuscany) than North Italian. So it is Un-Disputed Italic. Although the Tuscan Royalties had a massive influence from the Carolingians. And i believe that Dante was half german, but not very sure. The whole notion is that the Romans layed the Foundation of Europe, with Road Building, Bridge Building, The unification of a written letter system, calenders, Building Cities etc. etc. and that the Germans, took the roman foundation to the next level, thats why the first German empire was called Holy ROMAN, as a tribute to the Romans. So the Roman and Germanic elemnt was always crossed.

Edited December 22, 2005 by LEG X EQ