Roman Warrior Code

[Sikario]

Did Roman Warriors have something like a Bushido or Chivalry about them, or a warrior's text or body of stories they followed? In order to empower themselves in outlook, philosophy and in battle?

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Uh...well, do you mean Roman legionaries or the Roman gladiator?

[Jimbow]

The only thing I can think of is the Sacramentum, the annual military oath. Originally to the Senate and People, later to the Emperor and the general. He effectively gave up his right of appeal against the death sentence and swore to follow orders to the death. However, I believe he bore no personal responsibility for anything he did if ordered to do so. As for being chivalrous I don't think even fellow citizens felt they were that by any means.

 

Muzzaguchi on Roman Army Talk gave this translation of a sacramentum in Aulus Gellius 16.4:

 

"'In the army of the consuls Gaius Laelius, son of Gaius, and Lucius Cornelius, son of Publius, [190 BC] and for ten miles around it, you will not with malice aforethought commit a theft, either alone or with others, of more than the value of a silver sesterce in any one day. And except for one spear, a spear shaft, wood, fruit, fodder, a bladder, a purse, and a torch, if you find or carry off anything there which is not your own and is worth more than one silver sesterce, you will bring it to the consul Gaius Laelius, son of Gaius, or to the consul Lucius Cornelius, son of Publius, or to whomsoever either of them shall appoint, or you will make known within the next three days whatever you have found or wrongfully carried off; or you will restore it to him whom you suppose to be its rightful owner, as you wish to do what is right.'"

 

There was also an oath taken before a battle (I think it was Cannae but am probably wrong) where the soldiers swore to stay in formation unless it was to help a comrade or retrieve a missile for use. Something like that.

 

Cheers,

Jim.

[Tobias]

I believe that instead of a Warrior Code, the Roman soldiers were stongly "empowered" by their sense of professionalism; being seen as the best soldiers in the known world, and possessing the best armour, weapons etc. would have gone a long way towards keeping soldiers morale high.

The desire to not want to let down such a great power, as well as being strenuously trained and put in a professional, expert soldier frame of mind would have added to "empowering" the soldiers. Many people took the legions as a career path, whilst others merely served the compulsory time. But at any rate, all of Rome's soldiers were highly motivated, professional, expert and an extremely powerful weapon in the right hands.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Jimbow is certainly right, and I like Tobias' point on professionalism a lot, I'd say that was the primary driving force.

 

I think from a philosophical creed point of view one can say that the ideas of Stoicism trickled their way down to the common soldier as well. They might not have been philosophers or well informed on the precepts of Stoicism, but such things have a way of spreading their ideas around, particularly to those who would need to believe in such things and have such attitudes. Stoicism feeds well into the professionalism of the Roman soldier.

[Sikario]

Jimbow is certainly right, and I like Tobias' point on professionalism a lot, I'd say that was the primary driving force.

 

I think from a philosophical creed point of view one can say that the ideas of Stoicism trickled their way down to the common soldier as well. They might not have been philosophers or well informed on the precepts of Stoicism, but such things have a way of spreading their ideas around, particularly to those who would need to believe in such things and have such attitudes. Stoicism feeds well into the professionalism of the Roman soldier.

Wasn't some book written by an emperor or a general called the Edicts of the Warrior or something similar. Which had a bunch of philosophy and principles such as "One shall never speak ill of the dead."

 

Also didn't may soldiers in the Roman Army favor Ares as well a God of non-Roman origin from possibly Egypt, Persia, or Sumeria who believed in the afterlife. I believe he had several arms.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

HUH? Sorry, but your last sentence really confused me. I mean Mars is Mars. I don't know how it he could possibly exist in the Middle East when his origins were from Greece. I think what your pointing at is that Mars and your guy seems to have the same ideologies and traits. Lots of Gods of War were similar because many societies experiences the effects of war in similar ways. Correct me if my opinion is really stupid.

[Pertinax]

Favonius Cornelius is very pertinent here-the Legions were the epitome of professional excellence ,consider what they actually achieved ,and their utter deadliness. The Stoic ideal is often overlooked but may I suggest strong parallels with Samurai Zen ? Extreme physical effort and life threatening situations often give a sublime mental clarity beyond the actual event. The Stoic ideal gives a very calm and centred view of the world and the fleeting nature of the flesh, and is a comfort to the rational man beset by enemies, neither does it belittle human endeavour . Quintus in Gladiator and General Kurugame in Ran are worth looking at as modern sketches of such philosophies.Philosophy is fine as an abstract goal but remember the prodigies of valour the Legions actually achieved.

[Lost_Warrior]

I agree that they would have worshipped Mars, not Ares. (Mars and Ares seem alike on the surface but are in actuality very different if you actually look into the mythology anyway. ) and of COURSE one of the many names of Jupiter...though I cannot remember which one exactly (possibly Juppiter Optimus Maximus but I doubt it). There was also Mithra...

 

As for a "code" I do think there was something...but I don't think it was a written out code. I think it was a sort of unspoken thing, more along the lines of tradition than anything else. Everyone followed it, but it wasn't something that was written out or even discussed much (though it may have been discussed). Similar to the Greek Arete, but more Roman in philosophy and principle.

[Ursus]

Did Roman Warriors have something like a Bushido or Chivalry about them, or a warrior's text or body of stories they followed? In order to empower themselves in outlook, philosophy and in battle?

 

 

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Hah. You're thinking of the Sarmatians Ursus.

[Tobias]

and of COURSE one of the many names of Jupiter...though I cannot remember which one exactly (possibly Jupiter Optimus Maximus but I doubt it).

 

Yep, that was the name used for Jupiter to describe it as being "the one god that was all gods"

 

I would agree that the Huns, the mongols or others that came from the steppes would follow your suggestions as well Ursus

[Sikario]

Sorry I must clarify.

 

I remember reading that the Roman soldiers favored Mars, but I also read somewhere, it escapes me where now, among a large number of soldiers, their was a belief in a pre-Christian God who promised eternal life to warriors, possibly of Indian, Middle Eastern origin. The God had several arms and was permitted for worship even tho he was not a God of Greco-Roman origin, he became very popular among Roman soldiers of all different origins. If I am correct, the God had several arms and was Babylonian? Possibly, I am not sure. No less, I KNOW this God was praised, as to what his name is, I can't remember.

 

Okay, it was indeed Mithra I was thinking of. Yes, I remember now. Mithra it was.

 

Now, I must ask again about the code or the edicts, I know these existed to. I remember I heard about them in a Law and Order episode hehe, a group of young latins (Puerto Ricans mostrly) led by an older cuban had a gang of modern day Roman soldiers (Wannabe, dressed like normal kids) who followed a code.

A code from roman times, which spoke "One Shall Not Speak Ill of the Dead." Spoke of weakness and cowardice as crimes. Possibly, writings of Marcus Aurelius, but did Meditations cover that?

[Favonius Cornelius]

Now, I must ask again about the code or the edicts, I know these existed to. I remember I heard about them in a Law and Order episode hehe, a group of young latins (Puerto Ricans mostrly) led by an older cuban had a gang of modern day Roman soldiers (Wannabe, dressed like normal kids) who followed a code.

A code from roman times, which spoke "One Shall Not Speak Ill of the Dead." Spoke of weakness and cowardice as crimes. Possibly, writings of Marcus Aurelius, but did Meditations cover that?

 

Marcus Aurelius spoke of many aspects of life, but they were not necessairly military related and were never taken as a code of a soldier. I think the kids in the show are just misinformed, which is what I would expect from some punk street gang...

 

and of COURSE one of the many names of Jupiter...though I cannot remember which one exactly (possibly Jupiter Optimus Maximus but I doubt it).

 

 

I would agree that the Huns, the mongols or others that came from the steppes would follow your suggestions as well Ursus

 

I was mistaken when I spoke, I was meaning to say the Cimmerians:

 

Mongol General: "What is best in life?"

Conan the Cimmerian: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."

 

(Suppose to be a quote from Ghengis Khan).

[Ursus]

No, but seriously, while the Roman army was distinguished by a code of discipline and organization that set it apart from other ancient armies, it was still a killing machine. The Roman armies were noted for the extent of their destruction, even going so far as to butcher livestock and chop the heads off dogs when raiding a city. I just don't think the "professional ethic" of the legions should be overly romanticized. To say they believed in duty and discipline doesn't make the whole lot of them Stoics (I don't think the average person had much use for Greek philosophy at all), and it certainly doesn't make them Samurai either.