FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Just wondering, what kind of cup or bowl might have Jesus dranked out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted November 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Just wondering, what kind of cup or bowl might have Jesus dranked out of? I for one enjoyed Indy's choice of Christ's cup in the "Crusade " film- a simple rough, sturdy wooden vessel for a carpenters son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted November 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 (edited) Coming soon- should you eat the messengers of the Gods? of course you should! and the recipe will be here shortly woodpeckers can prophesy but they also make a delicious terrine and I cant believe this thread has run so far! Edited November 29, 2005 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 "peacock you admire him , often he spreads his jewel incrusted tail.How can you , unfeeling man , hand this creature over to the cook?"(Martial). well quite easily actually As many will know the Romans read the flight and behaviour of birds ,an art originally developed by the Etruscans .Originally seers staked out an area of sky by placing two sticks at a distance from each other on the ground ( the templun) .Then they sat on a 3 legged stool to study the sky, depending on the direction and number of identified species so were the signs interpretedeg: an eagle moving from the right showed Jupiter looking down favourably. The messengers were eaten shamelessley, crows,magpies, titmice, thrushes and pelicans all ended in the triclinium.The pheasant and the peacock were roasted and then had their plumage re-attached for the table. Thrushes were considered even more excellent than flamingoes tounges or parrot brain ( I know you are saying -"never. the brain is delicious!"), in a terrine they were considered most savoury. to be continued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floppybelly Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Sorry, I'm probably off-topic by now, but I don't come around here so often, and I saw this topic... It reminded me of another strange Roman delicacy, doormice. Like cute little furry rodents, right? And you eat them. :shudder: Whatever. I guess pig's womb would be even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Sorry, I'm probably off-topic by now, but I don't come around here so often, and I saw this topic... It reminded me of another strange Roman delicacy, doormice. Like cute little furry rodents, right? And you eat them. :shudder: Whatever. I guess pig's womb would be even worse. You are quite correct-the dormouse is on the table! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 When your hungry, I suppose there's no better alternative than eating doormice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Time again for a visit to the kitchen Fratres: Roast Wild Boar- you need either a very large oven or a very small boar.Jointed boar would probably be best nowadays.Rmove bristles and scatter with plentiful sea salt, crushed pepper and ground roasted cummin.Leave in your ice house (fridge) for 2 -3 days turn from time to time. Boar can be dry so wrap in slices of bacon and pork caul.Sear in a very hot oven for 10 minutes.Then reduce heat and roast (350 deg F, 1 hour per pound) . In the meantime prepare the sauce, reduce 500ml of winre to 200 ml add 2 tablespoons of honey, 100ml of dessert wine and Garum.Allow the meat to reat from the oven.Pour off the fat , then deglaze with the sauce mix. Carve the boar-well not you ,your slaves obviously-and serve with the sweet sauce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 That's the best food you've posted about so far. Hmm...savory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 (edited) That's the best food you've posted about so far. Hmm...savory. I thought it was rather conservative. Oddly enough we had a "hog killing" as I believe you say in the Americas this week, so ive been eating some rather bristly pork :blink:How different hand reared animals taste-and how sadly one kills them, but better than eating mass produced and processed food . Edited December 7, 2005 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I had intended to post a fish recipe today but I was diverted to what you might call a fish "incident",or rather a marine mammal incident.Tuna fish that are indolent will have to wait. Pliny tells us that "in recent years at Hippo Diarrhytus on the coast of Africa a dolphin used to eat out of men's hands and allow itself to be stroked and play with swimmers ( regulation new age stuff so far),it carried men on its back also.Flavianus the governor of Africa covered it all over with perfume ( well you would wouldnt you?),but because it was unused to the smell the animal drifted away in a stupor,and avoided men as if insulted .Later however it returned and was regarded with great wonder" That was a new one to me-what was Flavianus thinking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 It truely proves dolphins are intelligent creatures. Makes me wonder where it is now.Is it even possible to put perfume on something that lives in the water the whole day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 (edited) Am I allowed to add a Carthaginian menu to this topic? I'd love to hear what others think about this feast. On the following page Salammbo's Feast I've put the French text and two English translations of the Carthaginian Feast which is the first scene in Flaubert's Salammbo (historical novel published 1862). My questions: Did Flaubert's research pay off? Is this feast realistic? How well have the translators managed? And incidentally, does anyone fancy recreating this scene today? A few initial comments/queries: I don't know anything about the force-fed puppies with pink bristles (and I'm not sure if I want to); does anyone? I suppose that by 'assa foetida' (which is the correct French spelling) Flaubert means the extinct Mediterranean spice, silphium? What on earth is Tamrapanni wood? Andrew Edited December 15, 2005 by Andrew Dalby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted December 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 (edited) Asafetida (also called Devil's Dung) is Ferula rubicaulis-what happened is that Silphium was lost in antiquity and Asafetida was "slotted in " to its position in the medieval herbal materia medica, but ( importantly) they have no actual relationship save they both (appear ) to be Umbillifers .Well done for spotting the connection , very few people even know of it! Please do post a Carthaginian recipe ,that would be a great excitement to our jaded Roman palates, and if you have any knowledge of dining manners and customs better still. Tamrapanni is a fragrant wood from Sri Lanka (Ceylon as was) Force fed animals of any type usually require a diet of quality ( poly/mono -unsaturated fat as opposed to saturates and the modern evil trans -fatty acids) fats and some bulk grain so this doesnt look inaccurate to me. Ahh! the herdsmen of Brutium , just like the Gauls! Meat all over their jowls nice link Edited December 15, 2005 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 (edited) Andrew, Thank you for sharing, it seems quite plausible given what I know about the Punic folks. I particularly liked the first course. The snails in cumin sounded quite good! Some of the stuff would perhaps would have made me react as those Greeks... What is interesting is what can be infered by the mention of Tamrapanni & peacocks. Both (with Pertinax's insight on the wood) indigenous to India. Assuming this was before the destruction of Carthage, this is quite provocative. (Or out of context) As many may know, there is on going debate where the Phoenician "Tarshish Ships" mentioned in the Bible were trafficing goods from. One side maintains Tartessus in Spain due to the phonetic similarity. While others say that because the enterprise is first mentioned as starting in the Red Sea and because of the mention of them returning after 3 years with apes & peacocks that the Tarshish ships must have been making the sea run to India. Centuries before those routes were 'discovered' by Alexander's fleet and opened up by the Ptolemies... If his sources are within context, then we may infer that either the Carthaginians were tapped into the old Phoenician route or utilizing that of the Ptolemies that was opened up by Eudoxus (but I think he came after this period) Edited December 15, 2005 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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