Apostle Paul

[HISTORICUS]

[...] He was now able to hijack Jesus into his Hellenistic religion with no opposition from Jesus' original followers. [...]

 

In reality it was the other way around:

The Roman Divus Iulius was hijacked by Judaizing him, by way of adding all the quotations from the books of the Jews to the original gospel (especially in Matthew). This was done after the Jewish war in order to make Jesus the awaited messiah of the Jews, in order to integrate them into the empire.

"Jesus'" original followers were the Roman people and especially his veterans, most of them being settled in the East in exactly those places whence later Christianity emerged.

 

You certainly have not read 'Jesus was Caesar'. It provides an abundance of evidence that the historical Jesus was Gaius Julius Caesar.

Hello

You're right, I haven't read "Jesus was Caesar", but am very interested in alternative history and will try to get my hands on it. However, the discussion was about St. Paul, not Jesus, and whether you or I are right about Jesus we both seem to agree that St. Paul created a new religion by amalgamizing some tenets of monotheism with hellenistic mystery cult ideas.

[Ursus]

You certainly have not read 'Jesus was Caesar'.

 

 

Maybe he didn't because it wasn't required reading for this thread.

 

Are you the paid publicist for this Jesus = Caesar book?

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

I would like to recommend a few books for anyone interested in St.Paul and his hellenizing influence on the religion "founded" by Jesus. "The Mythmaker" by Haim Maccoby. "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception" by Baigent and Leigh. "James the brother of Jesus" by Robert Eisenman.

 

I also want to add something to what imaginifer said. Rabbi Gamaliel could not have been Paul's teacher in spite of what Paul says. Paul had not reached maturity when Gamaliel died, and the latter did not teach prepubescent adolescents, his audience was strictly adult.

[Peter]

You certainly have not read 'Jesus was Caesar'.

 

 

Maybe he didn't because it wasn't required reading for this thread.

 

Are you the paid publicist for this Jesus = Caesar book?

 

No, and btw you can read it for free on Carotta's website. From January 06 the whole book will be online.

You're correct maybe my response was not pertinent in this thread, however don't forget that Paul and Jesus (Divus Julius) belong together. No Divus Julius -> no Jesus -> no Paulus -> no Christianity as we know it.

 

Peter

[Ursus]

Hmmm. If it's free I might even read it. Thanks for the tip.

 

 

In the future, though, let's not try promoting this book in a topic unless it's actually topical (and with all due respect to your last sentence, the book's relevance to the topic is peripheral at best). We've got this whole nice big site, and you only ever talk about one topic, even in threads where it's not directly related. Gives the impression you're here for ulterior reasons.

 

You are of course absolutely free to post a review of the book and start a discussion on the Roman Media thread.

[LEG X EQ]

Romans didnt kill Jesus Christ, the Jews did.

Romans invaded Palestine and Judea and hated the jews, they massacred them at various occasions. killing the first borns etc. Jesus was about to establish a new religion. and that was a thorne in the eyes of the Jewish priests. Most Romans didnt even know about jesus existence. The jews (in the form of judas) betrayed jesus, the jews persecuted jesus, and also judged uppon him, they said that jesus is the king of the jews and plans a revolt agianst rome(which is a total lie, jesus is the son of god, and did not plan a revolt against rome). Because pontius Piltes famous words "I WASH MY HANDS IN INNOCENT" , but the romans were the rulers of this land and there for the justice system. so the romans had to crucify him. under the terms that jesus was a troublemaker. Petrus tan FLED to rome. fearing persecution by he jewish priests. He converted a bunch of roman civilians. to christianity. Christianity grew rapidly across rome. because it promised them a life after death. It became a thread to the roman leaders, because the roman beliefs were in multiple gods(as we all know Mars=god of war, Jupiter=god of all gods, Fortuna=godess of luck,etc.etc.)

so the Roman Christians were forced into the underground, literrly, they builded CATACOMBS and had secret messages. Nero, persecuted the roman christians, and threw the captured ones in the Colosseum against the lions. But Caesar Constantine, had a dream about a Fire Cross and an angel talking to him, saying "if you put a cross on each legionare, than, you will win the upcoming battle". So he did, and so he won. and made christianity the official religion. and christianity spread across the whole roman empire (todays europe).and the Roman Catholic church took shape.

 

 

Roman Catacombs

http://www.aug.edu/augusta/iconography/catacombs/orpheus.jpg

http://www1.appstate.edu/~gravettsl/RomeCatacombs.jpe

http://classic.archives.nd.edu/maritain/im...ce/Catacomb.jpg

[Ursus]

I don't believe the Romans "hated" the Jews more than anyone else. It was more like the Jews, or at least the zealous sects among them, were so determined to keep their exclusive religion and culture that they went out of their way to annoy Roman imperialism. And when Roman imperialism was sufficiently annoyed, it could retaliate with ruthless force. The Messiah madness that gripped that culture around that time frame only amplified the problems.

 

Also monotheism itself was not a threat to Roman religion. The Jewish god YHWH was simply seen as a local variant of Jupiter. The Romans were not intolerant in matters religious. The Romans took action only when religion became a front for social and political forces antithetical to Roman culture and imperialism.