Apostle Paul

[Guest Prof. Wallach]

Apsotle Paul is know as the "man of grace". What is his most contributing success to the Christian Church? How important was he to the church?

[Ursus]

I'd say he more than anyone else brought Christianity out of its Jewish roots and into the Gentile world, in effect making it a near universal religion.

[Primus Pilus]

Without Paul of Tarsus, I believe that Christianity fades away into the oblivion of time and spiritual competition. He is single handedly most responsible (even moreso than the Christ) for spreading its concepts to a far ranging audience. It was his tireless efforts that established the bulk of doctrine that we now associate with the core beliefs of the faith.

[roman wargamer]

Apsotle Paul ... How important was he to the church?

 

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i keep on wondering why the Roman Catholic ( error ) say's that

Apostle Peter is the first roman pope, when he never set foot in Rome.

 

and it is Apostle Paul, who studied under the feet of Gamaliel and member of the nobility,

a member of the Jewish Sanedrin ( senate house ) and a Roman Citizen ,speaks many language,

the highest educated member of the church, even vigorously persecuted the Church of Christ ,

before he suddenly converted to it.

 

and from there on... bring it to many parts of the ancient known city centers of the world.

 

but it is Apostle "Santiago" ( our dialect Bible ) that i read who is the head church administrator,

after Lord Jesus Christ go to heaven and set in the right hand of our Lord God.

 

The Israel and Church of Christ have only one God.

 

and most Protestant religion have two gods,

 

and some Protestant and the Roman Catholic have three gods, and believe in the Trinity Doctrine.

[Viggen]

An interesting read about Paul and the early church in general you can find here

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/paulorigin.html

 

cheers

viggen

[Plautus]

Didn't Frederich Nietzsche say he always hated the Apostle Paul for taking Christianity, a weird heresy of Judiasm, and inflicting upon millions of unsuspecting Pagans?

 

Seriously, wouldn't you say Saint Paul is the one who injected the new faith with a strong dose of Roman Stoicism?. Even though Paul was a Jewish Pharisee he seemed to have a healthy respect for the Greek philosophies, since upon his conversion he went straight to Athen and tried to argue Chrisitanity in Plato's Academy? No other follower of the Nazarene thought of doing going there.

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

Apsotle Paul ... How important was he to the church?

 

The Israel and Church of Christ have only one God.

 

and most Protestant religion have two gods,

 

and some Protestant and the Roman Catholic have three gods, and believe in the Trinity Doctrine.

 

What do you mean some Roman Catholic have three Gods, us Catholics may refer to it as if we had three Gods, but we're still talking about the same GOD and that is where the Trinity Doctrine comes in.

[roman wargamer]

What do you mean some Roman Catholic have three Gods, us Catholics may refer to it as if we had three Gods, but we're still talking about the same GOD and that is where the Trinity Doctrine comes in.

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Let's see some practical question?

 

The Lord God is in heaven.

When Lord Jesus "The Christ" go to heaven, He sat on the right hand of God.

 

So there is a one who sit and a one being sit upon. Is 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 ? or 3, which is right.

===

 

The very term Trinity means Three Gods and not One God.

And the very word Trnity can never be found or read in the Holy Bible.

===

 

When Jesus Christ, a man in nature died in the cross, is the Father God you are talking also die.

 

If the answer is yes, then your percieved god do die. Do true god really die?

 

If the answer is not, then the God is different from a man Jesus.

 

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Let's read a short qoute from the Bible.

 

God is Immortal.

 

"Now to the King eternal,immortal,invinsible,to God who are alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever,Amen. "( I Tim 1:17 )

 

Jesus Christ died on the cross.

 

"So when jesus had received the sour wine.He said "It is finished" And bowing his head .he give up his spirit ,...But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead,they did not break his legs.

( Jn 19:30-33 )

 

===

 

The Doctrine that Jesus is also God...was only formulated in the Council of Nicea.

[Peter]

Apsotle Paul is know as the "man of grace". What is his most contributing success to the Christian Church? How important was he to the church?

 

These questions gain even more importance in light of the discovery that the apostle Paul was none other than Flavius Josephus, see 'Jesus was Caesar':

"Jesus is the Divus Iulius of the Flavians: on behalf of a Flavian—Vespasianus; under supervision of a Flavian—Titus; formed by a Flavian—Flavius Josephus alias Paulus; and opposed by a Flavian—Domitianus. His resistance was in vain, for Domitianus was murdered. But that is another story."

 

So let's read Paul's epistles and Flavius Josephus' works anew.

 

Peter

[roman wargamer]

Why Peter of Tarsus join the Church Of Christ and Change Religion

 

When people hear about the teaching that one needs the Church of Christ to be saved, some become confused, others irritated, and not a few are infuriated. They doubt the fact that membership in the Church of Christ is needed for one

[Onasander]

Flavius, Wargammer, come on, let's use roman era philosophy/ theology if we're going to debate religion. It's the right forum, but remember, their's plenty of Apologetics out there for varius christian stances, as well as later islamic and Jewish ones just perfect for this discussion. This is no place to make enemies, we can easily defend our personal religious views if we really choose to do so (but why?), but let's use a variety of interesting sources if we're to do so.

[roman wargamer]

as far as i know; christianity still fall very well, within inside the Roman history.

 

what i am only empasized is that Roman Catholic was already a romanized christianity.

 

in the Council of Nicea was known as the turning point of christian apotasy.

 

===

 

"Jesus is the Divus Iulius of the Flavians:

 

what a good alter plot of Da Vinci Code.

 

i been studying "JC" Julius Caesar for a long time that why i know his life "time line"

have been long long gone and Rome a very powerful state in the whole known ancient world.

before the man Jessu was born in Nazareth, Israel.

 

is a very elementary error ( if you are really talking factual histrory )

to mistake "JC" Caesar to the man "JC" Christ; just because they have common initial.

 

but if you are only talking about it in the idea of good plot for fiction, it is agood one.

 

when the Jewish Pharisee ask Jesus if is right to pay TAX to the Roman.

He reply, give me a coin, then ask them whos face is in the coin, they all replied, "of Caesar",

then He said, " Give to Caesar what belong to Caesar, and to God what belong to God."

 

By Jesus time, the very name Caesar was already mean " The Government".

and Jesus "The Christ", was sentence to die in the cross by Governor Pontius Pilate.

 

i do not know if this very common history of two great men but of different story and time

could confused most people, why not try to read a more varied books, not just one.

 

my "intent" was to make more "diversified point of view", and not to make enemy, but of friends.

[Peter]

[...]

before the man Jessu was born in Nazareth, Israel.

 

At that time there was no "Israel". And a village named "Nazareth" didn't exist in the beginning of the first century AD.

 

 

He reply, give me a coin, then ask them whos face is in the coin, they all replied, "of Caesar",

then He said, " Give to Caesar what belong to Caesar, and to God what belong to God."

Isn't it possible that Caesar and Jesus (Divus Julius) are the two sides of the same coin?

 

my "intent" was to make more "diversified point of view", and not to make enemy, but of friends.

 

That's okay, I like to make new friends, too. But here I'm primarily interested in a discussion of the fascinating discovery of Carotta. Don't compare his work to "The DaVinci Code". That's not fair.

 

Peter

[HISTORICUS]

How important was Paul to the Christian church? in a word, he created the Christian church. No one knows for sure if Jesus even existed, but if he did he was simply another one of the many rabbis that came out of the Jewish religion. His teachings are fairly standard, similar to Rabbi Akiva and others. It appears that his followers (the Church of Jerusalem) were a branch of Judaism, not unlike the Hassidic Jews of today and their rabbis.

Paul is the one who took the basic monotheistic idea, added a mystery cult type of savior and went out to convert non-Jews (Gentiles). The Jewish mainstream as well as the original followers of Jesus saw clearly Paul as a charlatan and refused to admit him as a speaker on their behalf.

The luck of Paul and of Christianity is the disaster that befell the Jewish people of the war against the Romans and the utter destruction of the original church in the process. He was now able to hijack Jesus into his Hellenistic religion with no opposition from Jesus' original followers.

The result is well known: a powerful religious movement that fused the intolerance of the monotheists with the attraction of the mystery cults. It was just a matter of time before this small club (Christianity) and its fanatic members would win the critical mass enabling them to viciously dispose of its enemies, whom, as far as they were concerned, were perfectly happy to let the Christians do their things and worship whoever they wanted to.

[Peter]

[...] He was now able to hijack Jesus into his Hellenistic religion with no opposition from Jesus' original followers. [...]

 

In reality it was the other way around:

The Roman Divus Iulius was hijacked by Judaizing him, by way of adding all the quotations from the books of the Jews to the original gospel (especially in Matthew). This was done after the Jewish war in order to make Jesus the awaited messiah of the Jews, in order to integrate them into the empire.

"Jesus'" original followers were the Roman people and especially his veterans, most of them being settled in the East in exactly those places whence later Christianity emerged.

 

You certainly have not read 'Jesus was Caesar'. It provides an abundance of evidence that the historical Jesus was Gaius Julius Caesar.