Why Celtics And Romans Never Got Along

[Pantagathus]

I have some problems with this use of modern day genetic coding to figure the migratory patterns of humans. I admit, it is in part due to the fact that I am not completly up to speed on the research on the specific genes they track and why they seem to think them reliable.

 

My first point/question is are these genes even an acceptable marker? Genes have funny ways of spreading themselves around in counter-intuititive ways. Just because there is a case where one gene was used to track a human or other species population does not mean that it works for them all.

 

Another consideration is the dominant or recessive nature of this gene. If the Celts over-ran Brittania, killed all male men and children and raped the women, if the native population has a dominent form of the gene then it will be dominant in their bastard offspring and seem as if no migration happened. Why not track a male gene instead? Where are these samples being taken and via what unbiased method?

 

The markers used in genographic studies have nothing to do with dominant & recessive genes. For men, they use a marker on the Y chromosome that is always passed down patrilinearly. IF there is a mutation of the gene and that marker, it's called a "Founder Event" and a new branch to the tree is differentiated. Still, one can trace the dna code from that root lineage. This is how everything is traced back to the 'Out of Africa' event.

 

For women (& men from their matrilinear side), the same concept is applied in the study of mtDNA or mitochondrial DNA.

 

Using you're killing & raping senario, this is where analyzing the results does get tricky but it doesn't detract from the study. For example, if you test a male from latin America you'll most likely find a European Y chromosome marker but if you test his mtDNA you'll get one of the 4 Native American markers.

 

So, if the Celts had really invaded the British Isles & Ireland you would expect to find R1b M343 at much lower levels. If in fact the indigenous male population had been displaced...

 

In an effort to do the most comprehensive an unbaised study to date, National Geographic has lanched The Genographic Project which will add a lot more to what we currently know from independent studies.

 

I've read a lot of independant studies and though they can be pretty thick with jargon, the science is solid.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the link.

[Ursus]

Let us turn the tables a moment. If the Romans attacked say, the Insubres, then you could be sure that all Celt nations in the area would have cooperated at least a little, because when one is attacked all are in danger.

 

Such is also the case in Italia. When Etruia is attacked, it is a problem for all neighboring nations as well, particularly when they share closer cultural and allied ties. Perhaps the Romans did not have any overt alliances with the Etruscans, but it is still true that the invasion was a problem for them. I have not heard of too many instances where the Celts paid much heed to the arts of diplomacy anyway, so if a target had loot and was a good chance at being defeated, you could be fairly certain they would strike. Better to parley from a distance than at home. Sadly, the Romans apparently bungled that effort.

 

What say ye to that bear-like one?

 

 

Well, the Romans could have been hardly surprised to find Gauls in northern Italy. The main reason the Romans could defeat the Etruscans in the first place is precisely because the Etruscans were being given a headache by Celtic migrations. I doubt the Romans meant to start a war with the Gauls at that point in time. The Gauls were useful in softening up the Etruscan hold out cities to the north. What probably happened is the three Roman envoys were sent to observe things as a polite farce to the Etruscans. But once there three haughty nobles trying to prove themselves made things go horribly wrong. Had I been the Roman chief back home I would have gladly handed over the three envoys to the Gauls to tear apart. It would have kept the peace until such time as Rome was ready for a war with the Gauls.

[Pantagathus]

Interesting stuff! Thanks for the link.

 

You're very welcome