Hbo Rome and... BBC too

[Virgil61]

A single battle scene to be shown for a few minutes in one episode out of 12 would be quite an expense, I would imagine. Perhaps a small scale battle (shown through a memory of one of the soldiers) would probably cut the costs a bit but still, you would have viewers still complaining about the 'lack of spectacle'.

 

As I said in an earlier post, the opening sequence of the series would have sufficed. It was a small scale engagement with no more actors involved-- less than 150 I'd guess-- than a dozen other scenes in the series so far. I think someone just made a bad call on the script-- at least from the perspective of those of us who are interested in seeing battles depicted.

[Caesar's 10th]

I'm still having trouble understanding how people shouldn't discuss the show in a historical context, especially when some things are portrayed in way that is known to be ahistorical. One doesn't have to have lived in the time to have read the words of those who did, and understand the general truth of some situations. For example, we know that Cato was in Africa when Pompey was battling Caesar in Greece. The show puts him with Pompey and we know its wrong, and its ok to point it out, even though I still respect the job HBO has done. (both historically and in terms of entertainment value)

 

I personally prefer that historical gaffs, embellishments and/or edits for the sake of time constraint and entertainment value be pointed out for people who may not know, or wish to learn more.

 

Now back to show... I was disappointed in the latest episode that the battle of Pharsalus was so largely ignored. Perhaps one of the most important battles in western world history could have received a bit more attention, in my opinion. I am also still disappointed in Caesar's apparant lack of motivation or personal will, though I did fully enjoy the scene with Cicero and Brutus 'surrendering'. The acting of Antony's character is still remarkable in my opinion. From everything we know and understand of Antony, this characterization could not be any more dead on, IMO.

 

The 'trist' between Octavia and Servilia seems out of place, not because of the nature of the relationship in Republican times, but it seemed to me that both actresses were quite uncomfortable. Fortunately it was largely an implied scene and not presented in any great detail.

 

As for the death of Pompey: while I was suprised how quickly this chain of events was presented, it was wonderfully done. I think now that the show is moving quickly enough for the first season to definately end with Caesar's assassination.

 

The good thing is... 7 or 8 episodes in (or whatever it is) I am still glued to the TV on Sunday night.

 

Next episode Cleopatra. I missed the 'coming next week' part so I will just assume she will be beautiful. It may be slightly off from what we know of ancient images, but don't we all prefer it that way, both men and women.

 

I agree with the historical aspects of the show being different from what we feel really happened according to sources. I'm just personally trying to not get upset over the differences. Along with your statement about Cato being in the wrong place, it is also belived according to sources that Titus Pullo or Puleio had gone over to Pompey's side before the Battle of Pharsalus, long before in fact. His ship, among Gaius Antony's fleet, was captured by Pompey's fleet and he was a centurion by this time and encouraged his men to defect rather than face execution, etc.. Caesar later mentions that Titus Puleio fought very bravely and inspired the men under him at Durres. I knew this before the first episode and was curious what they were going to do. Obviously they had to change it, or one of our main characters would be lost half way in the first season. I do agree with you also on the rest of last weeks episode. I wish they had done more with the fight scene, that women had been more comfortable with the kissing scene (after all they didn't even undress), and I feel they need to give Caesar more drive. The scene with Vorenus was good tough, where he becames very angry but calms down and then informs Antony why he has given Vorenus mercy. To me that seems to be typical Caesar or my perception of how he should be. He is driven, commanding, inspiring, etc.. yet at times very calm and calculating. Cleopatra looked beautiful but I'm sure there will be people disappointed. It's hard to cast a role for one of the world's most beautiful women. I was disappointed with the casting of Helen in the movie "Troy". If they depict Cleopatra as being anywhere as sexy as they do Atia then I'm sure the episode will come out fine.

[Violentilla]

Cleopatra looked beautiful but I'm sure there will be people disappointed. It's hard to cast a role for one of the world's most beautiful women. I was disappointed with the casting of Helen in the movie "Troy". If they depict Cleopatra as being anywhere as sexy as they do Atia then I'm sure the episode will come out fine.

 

 

As I remember, Cleopatra wasn't necessarily gorgeous. I like to think that what she had was charisma and a powerful way about her that made her intriguing.

 

The snippets I saw for next week show Cleopatra with short cropped hair, and I thought they kept their heads shaved clean underneath the wigs. So now I'm curious about that.

[frankieb9]

Watched with dismay how the story is developing---our two heros are becoming the roman equivelant of batman and robin--and pullo even gets to bang cleopatra !!

 

And HBO is skipping a week---does anyone know why?

[Primus Pilus]

Watched with dismay how the story is developing---our two heros are becoming the roman equivelant of batman and robin--and pullo even gets to bang cleopatra !!

 

And HBO is skipping a week---does anyone know why?

 

 

They are certainly using creative license to get 'our two heros' involved in the integral part of the story, but I still think its somewhat credible. We might think that the Egyptian Queen would not sully herself with a lowborn soldier, but how do we really know. Though I'm sure Cleopatra would have 'people' around her to provide that sort of ummm, distraction, if she needed it, so I guess the notion could be a bit silly. At any rate it didn't bother me all that much. The boy ends up dead in less than a generation anyway

 

I did enjoy seeing Caesar finally acting somewhat with a take charge 'I AM CAESAR' kind of attitude. The exchanges between he, Ptolemy and the Egyptian advisors was well done. Along with the scene between Antony, Cicero and Brutus (even if it was a bit too, how can I say this... contrived perhaps?) this episode provided some excellent political intrigue.

 

As for skipping a week... it seems to me that they are just trying to get as many people to get on board from the beginning as possible. It might be unorthodox for HBO (I wouldn't know, this is the only HBO series I've ever watched) but skipping a week is certainly nothing abnormal for non-cable television network series'.

[Violentilla]

Though I'm sure Cleopatra would have 'people' around her to provide that sort of ummm, distraction, if she needed it, so I guess the notion could be a bit silly.

 

 

I was okay with her banging Pullo, since he was a Roman, and she needed a Roman blooded baby ASAP. Since Ceasar had no sons, it was a good bet on her part to get another man to father a child.

 

My trouble with the whole thing was that she should have killed him afterward, though.

[Skarr]

 

The snippets I saw for next week show Cleopatra with short cropped hair, and I thought they kept their heads shaved clean underneath the wigs. So now I'm curious about that.

 

Violentilla, Egyptian women did not have a single hair on their bodies, even their heads. You are right, most of them would wear wigs. However, Cleopatra was more Greek or Macedonian than Egyptian and I guess there is also the question of artistic license. I was a little puzzled by the pipe, which I thought was a later invention as Egyptians did have some hallucinogenic substances, which were probably burnt as incense in a closed room and as you entered the room and inhaled the smoke, you would typically enter into a trance that would enable a closer communion with the gods. The significance of its early use was more religious in nature and seen as a way to get closer to your chosen god. Most royals had duties towards their subjects as well as their gods and there were many religious ceremonies that required the Pharoah's participation.

 

Cleopatra considered herself to be Isis incarnate and had elaborate rituals of her own, where she was the high priestess of the cult. There were, of course, rumors that the cult was orgiastic and like anything else, we have no real evidence of these things. I agree with PP's observations on Cleopatra's choice in the tent scene. It is highly unlikely she would have chosen a Roman and knowing the fastidious nature of the Egyptians, she would have probably insisted on Pullo having a complete bath / cleansing / grooming before being brought to her. They would have spent hours preparing him for his 'audience' with the Queen. Cleopatra always traveled with a wide entourage of slaves, both men and women and she probably had her own personal body slaves (men) who would attend to any physical needs. Egyptian women were forceful, commanding and very aggressive. A woman like Cleopatra would have used men the same way a powerful man like Caesar would use attractive women.

[Denec]

Watched with dismay how the story is developing---our two heros are becoming the roman equivelant of batman and robin--and pullo even gets to bang cleopatra !!

 

And HBO is skipping a week---does anyone know why?

 

 

They are certainly using creative license to get 'our two heros' involved in the integral part of the story, but I still think its somewhat credible. We might think that the Egyptian Queen would not sully herself with a lowborn soldier, but how do we really know. Though I'm sure Cleopatra would have 'people' around her to provide that sort of ummm, distraction, if she needed it, so I guess the notion could be a bit silly. At any rate it didn't bother me all that much. The boy ends up dead in less than a generation anyway

 

I did enjoy seeing Caesar finally acting somewhat with a take charge 'I AM CAESAR' kind of attitude. The exchanges between he, Ptolemy and the Egyptian advisors was well done. Along with the scene between Antony, Cicero and Brutus (even if it was a bit too, how can I say this... contrived perhaps?) this episode provided some excellent political intrigue.

 

As for skipping a week... it seems to me that they are just trying to get as many people to get on board from the beginning as possible. It might be unorthodox for HBO (I wouldn't know, this is the only HBO series I've ever watched) but skipping a week is certainly nothing abnormal for non-cable television network series'.

 

 

 

I enjoyed this episode myself. In fact last two episodes are my favorite so far.

 

I am curious why Vorenus did not want to have sex with her. Was it becuase he was married and thinking of his wife, or becuase he felt like he was being treated as a slave? I might have missed some dialogue because my wife ketp on interrupting me and talking to me while it was playing.

 

 

The only thing that confused me was how they skipped an entire year. I almost missed it and did not realize until I saw the baby. I am not use to HBO doing that. I guess in order to tell the whole story they have to fast forward a lot, like how fast they get from one place to another.

 

 

With regards to skipping a week, it is somewaht normal, though most times they usually do it, when it a big holiday weekend, or something else. It does appear they are trying to get more viewers to watch from beginning.

 

I don't know if that is good or bad, I wonder how the ratings have been. I am hoping it is picking up, I know it got renewed for second season.

 

 

 

EDIT:

well I found an article that seems good, it seems ratings are picking up, and things are looking very good.

 

Interesting the writer talks about similar issues and his thoughts about the series though he is enjoying it very much

 

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...TL&type=tvradio

[Favonius Cornelius]

Gods Cleopatra is hot.

[Primus Pilus]

I added this quick reference chart for anyone who may need help following things..

 

HBO Rome Episode Guide

[Jordon Harriman]

I love this series because of the little things they continue to do to "get it right." Last night, when Servillia is coldly greeting Brutus, you see the family Imagoes in the background, lit with candles from behind. It feels like all those little touches are for people like us, and I really appreciate them. It just makes this Rome feel fully lived in, not like other productions with those cold, sterile, marble sets where people walk around in white togas pontificating.

 

I also liked Cleopatra's Egyptian SUV.

 

Primus Pilus, thanks for the useful chart.

[Skarr]

I am curious why Vorenus did not want to have sex with her. Was it becuase he was married and thinking of his wife, or becuase he felt like he was being treated as a slave? I might have missed some dialogue because my wife ketp on interrupting me and talking to me while it was playing.

 

With reference to your question above, Vorenus was a true Roman of the Republic and his sense of honor is strong. I think it's interesting that the writers have chosen to show the decay in the values of the Republic by putting Vorenus in situations which have obviously changed a lot but he still insists on acting as per the old code, as it were.

 

No woman, even if she were of royal blood, could command a Roman to sleep with her, like some slave or animal. There is no way that Vorenus could accept that and he says as much to the Queen, saying that he was not a slave and that she couldn't treat a Roman man in that fashion. It was something that went against the very things that Vorenus believed in and I can certainly understand. Pullo, of course, is an opportunist and doesn't have the high education that Vorenus has, nor his ancestry or his values. He is a man of the street, a Roman plebeian to whom life was simple and not very complicated. If Pullo saw something of value, he would take it without hesitation. However, as he points out to Vorenus on more than one occasion, he is not stupid either.

[Felix Marcellus]

I've enjoyed watching Rome for the most part. But week after week it becomes more soap opera-ish to me. I would've liked it to be much more of an action series like Band of Brothers. The Pharsalus episode was very disappointing to me and I had hoped the Caesarion episode would make up for it. Didn't. I actually opened up my laptop and started playing Texas Hold 'em on Pokerstars during that episode.

 

All I can say for season 2 is..... BATTLES. Show them. Consult with Mel Gibson and get the battle scenes done.

[Guest Magistra R]

They are skipping a week so as not to compete for ratings with the World Series.

[longbow]

For the British members,its starting on BBC2 9pm on November 2nd