Hbo Rome and... BBC too

[Francis]

please whoever stubles on this board please take the time to help me and read it and reply.

 

I bought the series and watched all episodes.

I know maybe some of these questions have been asked before, dont be mad at me, they are very important to me please help.

 

1. was the city really that dirty and grimy and gritty? was the stone fromt eh temples really that dirty ,and blackened?

 

2. Most of the characters faces on the series have this aged kind of dirty look to them, is this the work of makeup, and effects, or could real romans look like that?

 

3. Were there things in this movie that are not historicaly accurate?

 

4. Would it be possible for such a story, as Vorenus and pullos be actually true?

 

5. was murder that acceptable in ancient rome? where was the justice? could a roman just kill a guy on the street and get away with it?

 

6.gladiator scene: can flesh really cut that easily? like when pullo chopped of that guys head with his SHIELD is that possible that the flesh cuts (BOBES) like butter?

 

7. Were there other dramatic stories like this one that could be told from other times of rome history?

 

 

8. this is kind of dumb but all well it is important: could ordinary roman have real adventures like say pullo, that we dont know about historically?

or other scenarios happening like for example the whole drama with that baby child lucius?

 

9. Dialouge: Did romans actually talk like in this series? Did they have conversations about things portrayed in this series? fro example: lucius asking advice about women to vorenus? or other things too!

 

10. Overal look: could this show be actually almost exactly what the roman world look like? was it really that kind of epic, or am I blinded by makeup, and cgi and lighting and effects? could ancient rome and its people look like in this series? naturally?

 

only ten questions

good long replies, I am apprecitve of any

please reply help out

[Pertinax]

Francis you need to be in this thread. Good hunting.

 

An immediate general reply is -that as far as the the appearence of Rome , its physical setting , our knowledge of its life, street scenes, graffiti and moral codes go the setting is very accurate . The charachters themselves cannot help but be "modern" (to a degree) in attitude, demeanour and plot development.Huge effort (and money) was put in to achieve authentic appearence.

 

If you take a little time to look through other threads related to individual questions .you will find useful answers.

[Plautus]

Yes Francis, What my dear colleague Pertinax says is true. Much of what you ask is in these lists.

 

I think Primus Pilus pointed out a while back that the characters of Vorenus and Pullo are taken from a small reference Julius Caesar made in his book the Gallic Wars. Caesar made a point of remembering two cantankerous centurions named Vorennus and Pullo who squabbled and competed to see who was braver in battle, but the one would always help the other when he got in a hot spot among the enemy.

 

As far as the grime goes, I'm spending the summer in Taipei which has had a Mediterranean-like climate in the 90s fahrenheight (31-33 celsius) with 90 % humidity since early May. In a city of narrow streets, smokey fires, and no air conditioning, I can well accept the grittyness.

 

As for the murders, Rome had no regular police force, and the streets were a pretty dangerous place after dark. People usually rose and retired with the sun. Rich people could afford bodyguards and escorts with torches to go around at night.

 

As far as the swords cutting limbs, what came to my mind was Gibbon's chronicle of how Theodoric the Visigoth chopped Odoacer in half with one stroke during a peace conference. " Surely the mother of this knave must have made him with gristle, for I find no bone therewithin." Peace was achieved, by the way.

 

Thanks for the questions. That's what first attracted me to this site. Whenever I needed to ask about the show "who is that 300 pound naked lady covered in chicken blood?' UNRV was there to answer.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

"who is that 300 pound naked lady covered in chicken blood?' UNRV was there to answer.

 

[M. Porcius Cato]

1. was the city really that dirty and grimy and gritty? was the stone fromt eh temples really that dirty ,and blackened?

Almost certainly. They heated their homes with fires, and the soot was likely to blacken the marble. While it probably wasn't as bad as London in the nineteenth century or Pittsburgh in most of the twentieth century, the stone probably got pretty grimy.

 

2. Most of the characters faces on the series have this aged kind of dirty look to them, is this the work of makeup, and effects, or could real romans look like that?

Both! It's the work of make-up in the case of the actors, and with time all Romans actually aged as well. Imagine! Seriously though, look at the portraits of the Roman republic. This one from the Met looks like a Milwaukee banker. The style is called verism, and it celebrates age and dignity instead of the youth and athleticism celebrated by the Greeks (like the Kritios boy)

 

3. Were there things in this movie that are not historicaly accurate?

A few minor things. For example, Cato was younger than Caesar by quite a bit, and Cicero was quite a bit older than both of them. Cleopatra probably wasn't a complete dope-addled harlot. Atia is almost entirely a fictional creation. Octavian most likely never slept with his sister. Vercingetorix was probably strangled in private rather than in public. Contrary to the title of one episode, Titus Pullo didn't really bring down the republic.

 

Of course, there's a lot that isn't mentioned too. For example, Brutus was Cato's son-in-law and nephew; Servilia was Cato's half-sister. Caesar spent about half his time on campaign struggling to disentangle himself from crises he brought on himself (like runnning off without any food).

 

On the other hand, there is an enormous amount of attention to detail that you'd probably never pick up. For example, in the episode where Pompey and the senate leave Rome to assemble the republican resistance, Cato persistently inquires after the status of the treasury. Why? Because Cato's reform of the treasury as quaestor was one of the foundations of his reputation for honesty and probity, and he looked after the books of Rome (and later of Cyprus) his whole life. Things like that let you know that even when the series take liberties, they're doing so in full knowledge that they're filling in blanks.

 

4. Would it be possible for such a story, as Vorenus and pullos be actually true?

Vorenus and Pullo were actual figures with an interesting rivalry described in Caesar's commentaries on his illegal war in Gaul. Vorenus' escalation to the senate during Caesar's dictatorship isn't so fanciful to be impossible, though I do find the rescue from the gladiator pits to be a bit fanciful. More likely, Pullo would simply have survived the pits, as the mortality rate was 'only' about 10% daily.

 

5. was murder that acceptable in ancient rome? where was the justice? could a roman just kill a guy on the street and get away with it?

Ancient Rome was more crime-infested than Detroit, but it wasn't anarchy. Murder was illegal, which is why Pullo made an attempt to conceal his crimes. After the Sopranos, you're shocked by this???

 

6.gladiator scene: can flesh really cut that easily? like when pullo chopped of that guys head with his SHIELD is that possible that the flesh cuts (BOBES) like butter?

Shields were also useful weapons, but I'll bet no mere scutum could cut through (BOBES) like butter.

 

7. Were there other dramatic stories like this one that could be told from other times of rome history?

I'm partial to this period in Roman history, but I'd bet the era of the Punic Wars would have been dramatic too. Also, the early (mostly legendary) history of the Republic was very exciting and dramatic. The first consul, Brutus, expelled the kings and then had to execute his own spoiled-brat sons when they attempted to restore the king. The little monsters complained that in the republic, "the law had no ears", meaning it was indifferent to their rank and birth when meting justice. Glorious stuff!

 

8. this is kind of dumb but all well it is important: could ordinary roman have real adventures like say pullo, that we dont know about historically?

or other scenarios happening like for example the whole drama with that baby child lucius?

Sure. How many illegitimate kids are walking around today with no historian recording their father's deeds?

 

9. Dialouge: Did romans actually talk like in this series? Did they have conversations about things portrayed in this series? fro example: lucius asking advice about women to vorenus? or other things too!

Of course! Heck, one poet (Ovid) wrote a whole poem of advice on how to score with women (the Art of Love), and they could make themselves complete asses over women (if you think Vorenus and Pullo had it bad, wait until you read how Catullus felt about his girlfriend Lesbia, who made Paris Hilton look like a Vestal virgin). Also, if you read the plays from this period (like Plautus), it's clear that the Romans were as often earthy, bawdy, vulgar, and crass as they were dignified, philosophical, puritanical, and proud.

 

The Romans were a practical people. The Greeks invented tragedy, comedy, history, democracy, and philosophy (all in one century too!), but it took the Romans to build a decent sewer system, heated swimming pools, central heating, concrete that could set under water (useful for bridges), good roads, well-managed businesses and armies, and how to chill wine (use snow). Look at their poems. They worry about body odor, spend their time in baths, and wear perfume; all the while also worrying about how manly they were. For all their concern about their dignitas, they produced farces and satires that were as silly as Looney Tunes (in fact Plautus is almost Vaudeville). For all their prudishness, they plastered the place with pornography (literally: pornographic images are plastered on walls in Pompeii). As much as someone like Vorenus could worship authority, they also had an anti-authoritarian streak that was unprecedented--it was actually a Roman law to kill anyone who even tried to become a king. And for all their love of money, luxury, and comfort, they never seemed to tire of praising the poor, simple, farmers of the past.

 

Could any conceivable conversation manage to escape a culture so dynamic and full of contradictions as Rome? I don't think so.

 

10. Overal look: could this show be actually almost exactly what the roman world look like? was it really that kind of epic, or am I blinded by makeup, and cgi and lighting and effects? could ancient rome and its people look like in this series? naturally?

Everything about Rome was epic. Even their falling-down apartment buildings were taller than they ought to have been.

 

OK--now you have to keep watching Rome and read more of this forum.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

Cato, you never cease to amaze me...

[Plautus]

True, True. Good answers Cato.

 

What I liked about the series was that it was the first Sword & Sandal story not to condescend to a modern peoples lack of knowledge. It doesn't lay everything out easy for the Reality-Show crowd. When Caesar tells Anthony before going out to adress the men, "Don't clean up, you look good like that. Like Leonidas at Thermopylae." Or when Caesar is annoyed and exclaims "Bona Dea!" Or Vorennus always going on about how he had an ancestor at Magnesia, no attempt is made to explain, you just have to know. Yet, I don't feel it hurts your appreciation of the drama.

[Pertinax]

"who is that 300 pound naked lady covered in chicken blood?' UNRV was there to answer.

 

 

She was cut out of the British screen version, but is back in glorious chicken-colour in the box set.

[Plautus]

She was cut out of the British screen version, but is back in glorious chicken-colour in the box set.

 

Pertinax, did the British version also cut the scene where Attia sends the Big Penis slave to her enemy as a peace offering? I heard he was played by a well known Italian *or* star.

[Pertinax]

 

She was cut out of the British screen version, but is back in glorious chicken-colour in the box set.

 

Pertinax, did the British version also cut the scene where Attia sends the Big Penis slave to her enemy as a peace offering? I heard he was played by a well known Italian *or* star.

 

No the "sexual gift" was included. The British rather mysteriously were actually denied the better political scene setting interchanges, in the early episodes. I would add that I found the "incest" plot device to be the most unconvincing element in the whole story, was it included to make the series even more "sensational"?. I had heard that in Italy, the sexual content had been edited down.

 

Having now re-watched the whole set , and being able to scrutinise the actors rather than attend to plot , I find the standard of the principles acting to be excellent-the voice coach is a genius , Hinds can easily hide his light Irish brogue but Kerry Condon is Miss Dublin 2006, and Kevin McKidd is impenetrably Scottish.Purefoy, Stevenson , Johnson, and Menzies speak as they are.

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

I haven't seen even one episode... I don't have hbo. I feel I'm missing out on something...

[Plautus]

I haven't seen even one episode... I don't have hbo. I feel I'm missing out on something...

 

Bona Dea, man! Ask the Gods to get you the dvd collection. I think it's in stores by now. Sell your children, raid the Cilician coast for plunder! They may only make one more season of this show, so each episode is valuable. It's the perfect antidote for Paris Hilton and Fear Factor.

[Ursus]

Just watched the first two episodes on DVD! Loved it! Everything from the dry British wit to the unflinching sex scenes.

 

 

One question - the military salute used in the show, was that the actual historical military salute?

[Violentilla]

One question - the military salute used in the show, was that the actual historical military salute?

 

 

As I recall, the Roman salute is not found in any ancient texts. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable folks than me around here that can tell you more.

[Pertinax]

Just watched the first two episodes on DVD! Loved it! Everything from the dry British wit to the unflinching sex scenes.

 

 

 

Wait till you get to "Caesarion" then! Unflinching sex and wit together.