roman wargamer Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 it can never be understand... until you will know the the right and proper centurion formation. each legiones soldier have a basic formation and distance. how they could rotate the front rank? __________________________________________________________________________________ see related article 'The Cohors" for detailed formation here the figure represent 1 man ___________________________________________________________________________________ the contubernia have 9 man member, 3 man shoulder to shoulder and 3 man at the back and 3 man at rearmost or 27 men for the contutriplia. the first line protect the frontal coverage the second line protect the front men head coverage from arrow the third line continue to protect the head coverage from arrow the men , they all have a minimum of two feet distance between each other. when the posterior come forward , they "PASS" on that "Space" without breaking their own line formation or the prior line formation. they could rotate the front rank and rear rank without Breaking any formation. Primum Acies of the Cohors ================ 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/..=............Anteadstatus / medium infantry / phalanx / supernumerary 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Hastatus Prior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Hastatus Posterior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurius Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Thanks for the visual aid too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Artemis Sertorius Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Nice explanation, but from what time period are you basing this off of? Are the prior and posterior troops armed and armored the same, or are they different as in early Republican times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted August 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 but from what time period are you basing this off of? reply = Julius Caesar era are prior and posterior troops armed and armored the same reply = yes, it is uniform, subject to Cohors Artisan. a Roman legiones have all this weapons, for example the Hastatus... shield......................................=scutum sword......................................=gladius ,and a pugio and axe big spear................................=spear weapon.............. "hastae" primum weapon small spear.............................=spear weapon.............. "hastula" ( use as reserve in case the hastae break ? ) big javelin...............................=thong javelin............... "amentata" small javelin...........................= light trowing spear........"velitaris" ( with soft iron tip, terms could be ,small spear , javelin , or dart ) they all have this weapons and armour , and carry it in their body, that's why they are called the "heavy infantry". ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ note: Marius and Scipio created most of the innovation. but all of the explanation are base on my in-depth workguess and i claim copyright on this article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Legioneer Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) I like the visual aid but is this switching during battle or not? Edited February 7, 2006 by Centurion Legioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 have any re-enactors worked through this technique? The very first episode of HBOs "Rome" showed the very fluid interchanging of the first line with an excellent overhead shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I like the visual aid but is this switching during battle or not? Centurion Legioneer reply= yes , the Legiones , made it to perfection during practice; could do it easily during battle, either the aggresive , passive , or retreative rotation. The very first episode of HBOs "Rome" showed the very fluid interchanging of the first line [ with the second line ] with an excellent overhead shot. Pertinax reply=what HBO shows was for scenematic effect... no it is not the right way , form , and movement. are you aware of the military term or parlance "battle line"? a Cohors have 10 battle lines with 3 battle acies lines. the Legiones "battle line" acies have 3 lines compose of Anteadstatus, Hastatus Prior and Posterior. the centurion "line" was fixed form , rigid movement , and militarily straight line. nobody is ever allowed to break away from the line , either by some moving faster or slower. they do it by "military cadence" or numbered step of marching. regardless of reason , of exposed individual enemy, good opportunity because of weaker type of enemy troops or enemy flanks was exposed. The Hastatus Prior and Hastatus Posterior never break their line regardless of reason. It is the "JOB" of the more mobile and lighter Anteadstatus to do the "selective lesser battle". ( even in modern gun powder era , you can be punished for breaking your company line, unless until the command of "Charge" when the CO feel the the enemy can be defeated by assult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 erratum: explanatory remarks the Legiones "battle line" acies have 3 lines compose of Anteadstatus, Hastatus Prior and Posterior. should be read , the Cohors battle Primum Acies line have 3 lines.... ---------- the centurion "line" was fixed form , rigid movement , and militarily straight line. should be read , the Hastatus "line" was fixed form , rigid movement , and militarily straight line. ----------- explanatory remarks: Primum Agmen means Column Line or the Cohors Column. a legio have 10 column or cohors agmen. Primum Acies Line means the Manipular Line of the Cohors. a cohors have 10 lines or manipular acies. a Cohors have 3 Manipular line; Primum Acies Line = Hastatus Line Secundae Acies Line = Princeps Line Tertius Acies Line = Triarii Line ------------ Cohors Formation , In battle ( Cursores Agmen not shown ) each manipular line have a standard distance of 50 meters each acies line have a standard distance of 150 meters __________________________ Primum Acies Line 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/..=............Anteadstatus / medium infantry 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Hastatus Posterior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Hastatus Prior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ ------------------------------------- Secundus Acies Line 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/..=............Ante Princeps / medium infantry 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/.=............Princeps Posterior / heavy infantry ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/. ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/. ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/.=.............Princeps Prior / heavy infantry ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/. ()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/. -------------------------------------- Equitatus Turmae ___________________________ CohorsSigniferi -------------------------------------- Tertius Acies Line []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Triarius Prior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/.=............Triarius Posterior / heavy infantry []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ []/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/ 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/..=............Ante Triarius / medium infantry 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. 0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.,.0/..0/..0/.. __________________________ ==================== __________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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