Western Perception Of Islam

[longbow]

then the IRA Catholic can also be labeled as a terrorist

 

 

 

The IRA are terrorists?havent they allways been labeled as terrorists?

 

Or are they Freedom fighters in America?

[Primus Pilus]

The IRA are terrorists?havent they allways been labeled as terrorists?

 

Or are they Freedom fighters in America?

They've been associated with terror for as long as I can remember.

 

But regardless, we are moving away from original Islam/Christianity question.

[Onasander]

But regardless, we are moving away from original Islam/Christianity question.

 

 

Are we?

 

The Fraternity of St. Sebastian

 

http://www.christiansoldiers.org/

 

linked on their site is the works of Bernard de Clairveaux, St. Thomas Aquainas, St. Ignatius, Plato, as well as thier own rule.

 

Their are still practitioners of the ancient ways in modern times on borh sides, but now thier using modern tactics and strategies. Who knows, someday this organization may be the Vatican's version of Delta Force, which will resultingly anger.... well, everyone.

[Scaevola]

islam can be considered evil, even if it is not. it is the way the muslims interpret it

 

How is the entire religion evil?

How are all Muslims evil?

 

I can't find any proof for either of those points, unless you use people like Jack Chick as sources.

 

Argument not proven, thus invalid until more evidence presented and not refuted.

[roman wargamer]

Islam can be considered evil,

 

Argument not proven, thus invalid until more evidence presented and not refuted.

 

What a simple rebuttal... not just opinion of hate.

Let the truth speak, and the truth will set you free.

 

No Major religion that "exist" todate, that did not have religious war of expansion or defense.

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The Roman Catholic have the Inquisition ( Hunting of not Catholic ) and the Crusader War.

 

Th Muslim ( Islam ) have the Holy War of Conversion, they even reach Spain.

 

Even the Anglican Protestant have a war against Catholic.

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it just happen, that the radical segment of Arab World, is doing those under the name of Islam.

[Ursus]

And the problem is that the "radical sect" keeps growing all the time, while the "mainstream" sect is infamously lax about speaking out against the "radical" sect.

[roman wargamer]

"radical sect" keeps growing all the time,

while the "mainstream" sect is infamously lax

when US President George Bush declare war on Iraq. with Congress approval.

 

majority of the US Citizen did not conform, and they have no way to "Stop It".

 

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( Why does, everytime a Republican Candidate win the presidency, there is a "WAR" ? ) i notice it.

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In Iraq today, those who are Pro-Democracy is fighting for their life, isn't it worth helping them.

and at least create a base for future pro-western country.

 

and not look only at the damages, those radical few are doing.

[Ursus]

when US President George Bush declare war on Iraq. with Congress approval.

 

majority of the US Citizen did not conform, and they have no way to "Stop It".

 

I really beg to differ. There have been non stop protests and internal dissent since the war. There has even been talk of secession from United States by states that are heavily Democratic. I don't think this country has been so divided since Vietnam, and I look for it to become even more divided.

 

....

 

It seems to me the main problem with all this is that people want to showcase their "tolerance" and their "social awareness" by declaring Islam a "religion of peace" and by proudly declaring that they do not hate Muslims.

 

Fine. I don't hate Muslims either. It doesn't make me blind to the fact that an ever increasing segment of them is becoming fanatical.

 

As as far as the religion of peace, Christianity was also supposed to be a religion of peace, and we all know what happened with that, don't we?

 

 

And on that note, I see mass hatred of Bush and his Christian supporters because they are supposedly intolerant. They don't like other religions, they don't like gays, they don't like abortions, they don't like women who exist outside traditional familial structures, and they don't have much use for the environment. So they are declared EVIL. Ok, fine. But ... do not Muslims, whether Mainstream or Radical, believe in pretty much the same thing? But they are not evil. No, they are a religion of peace. Oh, ok.

 

Nice double standards. The only way any of this makes sense is if some people secretely hate America/Capitalism/The White Male Hegemony so much they are willing to tolerate anything that might give it a bloody nose.

[Segestan]

Religious doctrines that measure the passing of the finite experiences by Darkness and Light are inherently incompatable doctrines.

The West is the Light. The East Darkness. Simply as that!

Immigration cross bordering of cultures is the Evening or Dawning of the Light.

It's Not just the ideas of Good and Evil that divides these dictrines ; these are truly founded as natural conflicting manifestations of the human experience in time and space.

 

 

regards,

[Felix Marcellus]

"

( Why does, everytime a Republican Candidate win the presidency, there is a "WAR" ? ) i notice it.

Really? So Franklin Roosevelt was a Republican? Bill Clinton was a republican? JFK was a republican?

[Virgil61]

Comparing Islam to Christianity isn't very useful because Christianity has the benefit of being softened by an Industrial Revolution, a capitalist revolution, an Enlightenment and an Age of Democracy.

 

Islam hasn't had these things.

I share this same view, it hits the problem squarely on the head.

 

I've been to the Middle East several times including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq and Turkey. In spite of having many muslim friends I find it difficult, after seeing how women and Christians are treated in the countries I've visited, to have much sympathy for Islam. I've read through the Koran and quite honestly I've been taken aback by it's view of Jews and Christians; while it isn't actively hostile to them as it is towards paganism it's also not exactly friendly, Jews and Christians are to be tolerated but not befriended, trusted or lived amongst.

 

Until Islam adjusts to the modern world rather than confronting it, it will retain a large measure of violent hostility.

[Spurius]

If you keep up on the modern interpretations of Islamic thought, as it is taught and practiced in Western societies, there is tolerance and respect. Along the lines of many teachers/prophets, one truth and unity of God.

 

However, teaching this way makes the religion less than charismatic (quite boring actually). The virilent anger, the breeding of violence, comes from the twin dragons of poverty and blame. Most of the so-called terrorist breeding grounds are poor countries whose residents have been made even more painfully aware of their poverty by the increasing information/entertainment about the rich West. Unlike us in the West, where we have been taught that the money is out there and you can create more if you do it right, they are operating on the assumption that there is a finite amount of capital and the rich are just keeping it from the poor...it's not their fault, the rich are keeping them poor while dangling rewards in front of them. That creates tremendous frustration.

 

Note: I am not saying either of these view points is valid, I just discussing perceptions.

 

Anyway, this frustration is keyed into by charismatic leaders much like Facists and Communists during the first half of the 20th century. In this case, given artificial borders and forcing together of groups, it is really easy to adopt an "us versus them" mentality. All of our problems are rooted in "them", so drive "them" out and all will be better.

 

The charismatic political leaders, like Quadaffi and Saddam Hussein take advantage of this, as do religious leaders like the Ayatollah Khomeni and Al Sadr. The religious leaders are like the evangelical church here in the U.S., gaining converts at a fast rate because they offer a forceful quick answer to life's problems instead of the more boring "let's reason together."

 

Then it is easy to jump from a forceful religious answer to a violent answer offered by "heroes" struggling against the evil forces that are keeping us in debt bondage and trying to eradicate the true voice of Islam.

 

So, Islam can and has adapted to modern Western society, it's just that the majority of Muslims still live in situations that create tremendous amounts of anger and frustration...leading to a situation of charismatic violence done in the name of a religion that has nothing to do with their basic frustrations. It is a deadly feedback loop that is hard to break since one of the real ways to solve it involves money. And every country is very guarded with that...

 

Sorry for the rambling post, and of course all of this is IMHO.