Western Perception Of Islam

[Felix Marcellus]

I'm having a fairly disturbing discussion about this on another discussion board. My personal opinion is that Islam is not an evil relgion. Personally, I don't care what some versus might say about killing infidels or what not. I judge all religions by the acts of the majority of the people who follow them. And in all cases I find all the major religions of the world to be generally benevolent.

 

OK. This is what I want to discuss.

 

1. Is Islam in its core tenets evil?

2. Is it any more evil than Christianity?

3. Why does what is written in either the Bible or Koran matter more than the actions of the practitioners of these religions?

4. Do you admit or deny that Islam has been used for the advancement of evil any more or less than Christianity?

5. In conclusion: Bottom line. How do you justify in your mind the view that it is evil or not evil?

 

Here's the trends I've noticed from the Islam is evil contingent.

 

Lot of it became a "who done it first" contest.

IE. Moslems attacked Christianity first. Therefore Christians have always been on the defensive.

 

Crusades: I've noticed people arguiing against Islam 100% believe the crusades were noble. They didn't involve any desire for land grabbing or wealth.

 

No acknowledgement of Byzantine's mistreatment of Moslems when the religion was still in its formative years. And in some places complete denial of it.

 

Completely avoiding any comment about the very numerous wars of religion in Europe from the Middle Ages until well past the renaissance.

 

Blaming the acts of a few extremists on all of Islam, yet going out of their way to counter any argument that one could blame all of Christianity for what the IRA, Hitler or STalin did.

 

Comparing Moslem occupation of Spain and Turkish occupation of much of the middle east and North Africa to 16-20th century Colonialism in order to again basically say "They did it first".

 

Bottom Line for me is that this hatred of Islam and blaming them for what a few extremists do is ridiculous and can only serve to further divide our two worlds. If we can't get past both our histories we're all doomed.

 

And all this talk about how the Moslem world has not came out to condemn these attacks is ridiculous. Where was the Christian condemnation for Christian on Christian violence in Ireland for the past 100 years?

 

Anyway. You all know where I stand on it now. I'd like to hear what you all have to say on it.

[Favonius Cornelius]

1. No I don't think so, I think that what the west sees as evil is ancient and still backward cultural influence.

2. Certainly not, the wheel of monotheistic violence continues to turn and turn.

3. It is an excuse, the way they rationalize their criminal acts (goes for both sides).

4. History has a persistant way of recording the long list of eventually equal crimes on both sides. When the Islamic invaders conquered lands, they often allowed peoples to continue with their religions. Christians I think are less forgiving of outside faiths.

5. In a humanistic way which condems the history of both Christians and Muslims.

[Lost_Warrior]

I do not believe *any* religion is "evil". The actions of some of the members of that religion (who may or may not be true followers of the "true" religion...some of them are offshoots and radical sects) may be evil (there is NO justifying the crusades or the witch hunts in my mind although I do NOT hold this against Christians as a whole). However the religion that they follow is not.

 

I have friends who are Muslim and they are the sweetest, kindest, most peace loving people you will ever meet. Same with Christians. I refuse to judge the many on the actions of a few.

[Primus Pilus]

'Evil' is subjective and objective. Of course, I view any religion as an invention that attempts to define good and evil by some abstract rules of supernatural defintion, and that they should be avoided, allowing for clarity of thought and individuality.

 

However, more directly related to the topic...

 

Islam, whether it be the dangerous fundamentalism or the more peaceful version, is in direct contrast to many of the moral and societal principals of western society. The two have difficulty co-existing because of daily routine contradictions that make conflit unavoidable (whether it be simple irritation or open violence). These contrasts do not make Islam 'evil' in and of itself and I and won't label it as such because it requires a belief in such things. I just feel that it is simply counter culture to the western norm.

[Favonius Cornelius]

Islam, whether it be the dangerous fundamentalism or the more peaceful version, is in direct contrast to many of the moral and societal principals of western society. The two have difficulty co-existing because of daily routine contradictions that make conflit unavoidable (whether it be simple irritation or open violence). These contrasts do not make Islam 'evil' in and of itself and I and won't label it as such because it requires a belief in such things. I just feel that it is simply counter culture to the western norm.

 

 

Can you provide specific examples of how Islam is counter to Christian belief? I think there is a difference between cultures, but when you sit down and read the Koran and the Bible, are the laws and beliefs really any different?

[Primus Pilus]

Islam, whether it be the dangerous fundamentalism or the more peaceful version, is in direct contrast to many of the moral and societal principals of western society. The two have difficulty co-existing because of daily routine contradictions that make conflit unavoidable (whether it be simple irritation or open violence). These contrasts do not make Islam 'evil' in and of itself and I and won't label it as such because it requires a belief in such things. I just feel that it is simply counter culture to the western norm.

 

 

Can you provide specific examples of how Islam is counter to Christian belief? I think there is a difference between cultures, but when you sit down and read the Koran and the Bible, are the laws and beliefs really any different?

There are verses upon verses that not only contradict one another, but that also contradict verses within their own texts (the Koran is filled with contradiction based on the nature of Allah as a transformed deity from a poly to all encompassing monotheistic deity, while the Bible has many problems especially once one starts to include previously discarded books). However, before I blast away too much, as my Koran study is terribly limited and I offer only a semi educated opinion... a simple googling of Bible and Koran (Qu'ran) will probably provide some rather lengthy sources.

[Ursus]

Comparing Islam to Christianity isn't very useful because Christianity has the benefit of being softened by an Industrial Revolution, a capitalist revolution, an Enlightenment and an Age of Democracy.

 

Islam hasn't had these things.

 

There are a lot of inherent doctrines in both Christianity and Islam I don't stomach. But the Chruch doesn't kill people anymore. It doesn't have the power or the stomach in the face of 500 years of cultural evolution. Islam, on the other hand, has large strains of itself willing to kill for such things.

 

People can protest those as actions of fanatics all they want; the problem is that fanatics are growing in number and influence. The younger generation takes it faith extremely seriously and seems to meld this faith with a hatred of the West. Islam is fast becoming one large anti-western vehicle. If there is not some sort of internal movement within Islam to moderate that tendency, I suspect the Clash of Civilizations will only grow as Islam becomes the largest faith on earth.

 

I'm not sure bombing Islamic countries back to the Stone Age is quite the answer, but on the other hand I think ignoring the potential for long term, wide spread cultural violence is rather naive. I'm sure the Romans of the first century didn't expect the Christian cult to one day take over the empire and smash all the temples ...

[Fafnir]

Or... You could look at it from my point of view, in which all organized religions are evil, 'evil' meaning that organized religion tends to position people hostile to eachother. (i.e. Modern Jerusalem, Crusades)

 

Islam is as evil to Christians as Christianity is evil to Muslims. All a matter of perspective.

 

Islamic extremists shouldnt be what we think of when we think of Islam, but in most cases, it sadly is. Islam is a religion of peace and prosperity.

[Ursus]

Islam is a religion of peace

 

As long as you believe in the deity of Abraham. If you believe in gods other than than god of the Koran, then you are committing the greatest evil.

[Lacertus]

Well. Let me ask too.

If Christianity is religion of peace and Islamic is peaceful religion why we have religion wars now?

If they cannot be in peace together this mean the both religions are evils for people.

Well... the religios question is one of more danger in the modern world. I notes it in simple life too. It is very hard to live in country with any religion if you have other.

[Ursus]

I honestly think most religions do a fair job of keeping to themselves. In East Asia there are a variety of faiths and philosophies that have existed side by side for 2000 years or more, and people there are apt to practice bits and pieces of several faiths. The Tribal religions found throughout the world more or less claim the religion is for the particular tribe and no one else. The Jews were never interested in converting other people, though they do claim to have a special relationship with the alleged one true god of humanity.

 

There are really ony two religions that have a mandate to convert the entire planet.

[Spurius]

Religion is an excuse. There would be conflict between Daar al-Islam and The West even if both were purely secular.

 

Look to the root causes of anger in the madrassa in Pakistan, Kurdistan, and other poor countries of the region. Look to the reason why the Serbs went after Muslims. All have to do with anger outside of religion and given focus by leaders who chose religion as a catalyst.

 

I would suggest two books to give perspectives:

 

The Lexus and the Olive Tree: Understanding Globalization by Thomas L. Friedman, for how money makes needs and expectations and how violence can follow. The Clash of Civilizations by Samuel P. Huntington, for seeing all of the complex societal and cultural clashes that scar the landscape.

 

Compare those two and you can see the flash points that haven't erupted yet but will. Kind of depressing actually.

 

But with the OP: Men, not their creations, are evil. Some are created for evil's sake but need evil Men to run them, and Islam is NOT one of them. Terror killing is evil.

[Ignorant]

islam can be considered evil, even if it is not. it is the way the muslims interpret it

[Maximus]

I don't think any religion is 'evil' but it is the people who try to influence the people of other religions. I personally am not religious but I think that if one person from Islam is not prepared to take into consideration the views of the other persons religion, then this is wrong. If religions are to co-exist with one another, then there must be give and take on all sides.

 

With regards to the extremists (especially the Islamic), then if they are not prepared to live side by side with Christians, then they should be removed to a country where they can practise their religion without penalising others who do not believe as they.

 

Let it be known that I do not hold a grudge against anyone unless they do something to myself that changes my view of them.

[roman wargamer]

islam can be considered evil, even if it is not. it is the way the muslims interpret it

if we will take your argument, then the IRA Catholic can also be labeled as a terrorist.

 

if we will go to the US prison, most of the prisoner are protestant.

 

if we will go to the Italy prison, most of the prisoner are catholic.

 

no body can claim he never made a wrongdoings , sin or even petty crimes.

 

Bin Laden can be compare to Adolf Hitler, using hate campaign to advance his own agenda.

and the Isalm religion as his Party or Machinery.