Pantagathus Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I've notced over the years that when you deal with fringe ancient history where many 'details' have to be infered from scant few surviving texts; things will be interpreted across a wide spectrum... From the extremely fanciful, to the geo-political, to the realistic. One area that I've spent a lot of time researching is the 'lost' city of Tartessus. It vexes me when time after time respectable sources atribute Tartessus to either the Phoenicians, Phocaean Greeks (either confused by the phonetic similarity or not reading what Herodotus has to say carefully enough), 'Basques' or even the Celts/Celtiberians... After reading all the ancient and exhaustive 'modern' scholarly sources I have definitely formed my own firm opinions as to who the Tartessians where (& what they were capable of) and what happened to them near the end of the 6th Century BC. However, I am curious to hear the opinions of those on this board in regards to the origins and influence of this almost mythical realm on the edges of the ancient known world. My first general question is: Did the establishment of Gades by the 'advanced & civilized' Phoenicians influence the natives to evolve into Tartessus/Tarshish or did the pre-existing wealth of Tartessus/Tarshish 'society' draw the Phoenicians all the way from the Levant; thereby creating the need to establish Gades to trade with them? Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wynde27 Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Sorry not to know the answer. I just started on this research myself for a historical novel series. From what little I do know I'm guessing that the Tartessians had established a coastal trade connection to Africa on the Atlantic and up the coast to modern France. Probably also land trade into the interior of modern Spain. I also guess that the phoenicians were later arrivals. From what I know of them the were probably superior at sea trade and the defense thereof. The phoenicians ignorance of Tartessian trade secrets and the Tartessians inferior technology probably resulted in a treaty of sorts. If you have sources or ideas you are willing to share I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted September 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 Wynde27, If you are still monitoring this, my deepest apologies for taking so long to get back to it. The thread went untouched for quite a while and I quit checking it. It would seem that your assumtions are close to mine. If you don't mind me asking, in what regards are you folding Tartessus into a novel? I've done a lot of research but in the end there really isn't a whole lot out there that really answers some of the main questions. I've read every ancient source that even whispers about it and I've read every anecdote by the ancient geographers in regards to the area around the Guadalquivir. For modern works, Barry Cunliffe's "Facing the Ocean" helps a bit but he's Celto-Centric so he falls into the trap of using the 'party line' when it comes to Tartessus. Most of the others are too focused on the Phoenicians and Greeks (because it's easy) and fail to step out on a limb and speculate in regards to Tartessian power & influence without the concrete evidence of the city itself... My recommendation is to absorb all you can from a wide variety of sources (because they vary widely) and come to your own conclusion. One hint I'll give you is to take heed of Strabo's facination with the Turditani in his chapters on Iberia... Many many clues about the Tartessians can be found in the desciption of their legacy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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