Define Roman

[Spartacus2]

Friends, Romans...

I neglected (before registering) to study both the terms of courteous service, and the second page of this discussion. For both of these oversights, I apologize, although I also feel entirely welcome. Thanks!

The heart of my meandering remarks actually contains a hidden question. My namesake's remarks seem to have been quoted nowhere, but his actions appear to have been defined by the desire to separate from Roman power without any expectation of overthrowing it.

I belive this forum is overflowing with the quality of expertise and scholarship that can vastly reduce the time I spend seeking the voices of dissenters from Roman authority. My suspicion is that a concise definition of Romanitas will emerge in my understanding by reading her most eloquent critics, both Roman and nonRoman.

And thank you again, for the warmth of your welcome.

[Demson]

No need to apologize, I did not see any offense from you.  I apologize for not giving you a hearty welcome.   

 

I was just saying I think this thread I started drifted woefully off topic from my original premise.  But it's all good, I'll make up for it in the future somehow.

 

What was your original premise exactly? What made them different from other cultures?

 

Or what made Roman, Roman? If so - that's answered by summing up the events the Romans dealt with throughout history. The oppression by foreign kings, the creation of the republic, the conquest of other tribes, the sack of Rome, the conquest of the penisuela, the Punic wars, the greek wars, the gaulic conquest, etc.

 

I'm really not sure from what angle you're coming from. Why is the discussion we had so far off-topic?

[Marcus_Aurelius]

First of all Romans where a mediteranean people.Therefore,we should compare them to modern Italians and Spanish.Genetically speaking there is not much difference between the Romans,the Neo-Latin Peoples and Greeks.Their way of life was very much influenced by the sea and by warfare as warfare was the food of Rome.If there is any way of defining the ideal man in a roman's vision just think at Caesar,always ready to defend his dignitas,ambitious,warlike,vengeful,a good orator and verr intelligent.

[Guest Joe]

Virgil may have said it best when he wrote this poem for Octavian.

 

 

[Pax Orbis Furius]

Hail!

 

A Roman was a person defined by service to the state. To be Roman meant to be dedicated to service, to duty, to the people and to self second, only by so doing could a Roman find truth, meaning, become Roma itself. To be Roman meant belief. Belief in the ideal of Rome. Ideals set first in the Republic, yet held long into Empire. To be Roman meant to honor the past, honor traditions often in blind disregard to advancing change. To be Roman meant to be disciplined, in family first, to gain a discipline self second, molded thus, to serve Rome as a trained, disciplined citizen third. To be Roman meant to strive, to seek, to never find satisfaction except in accomplishments ever higher. To be Roman meant the knowledge of yearning. To be Roman meant the overwhelming need to control the nature of the world. To be Roman meant profound insecurity, hidden behind success and expansion, yet a driving force in the souls of the people. To be Roman meant pride. To be Roman meant imperfection and hypocrisy banded together with best effort and fine intent. To be Roman meant to set impossible goals far beyond the reach of reasonable expectation, and succeed. To be Roman meant to set impossible goals far beyond the reach of reasonable expectation, and fail, yet try again. To be Roman meant arrogance, and humility. To be Roman meant human frailty backed by firm teamwork and disciplined resolve. To be Roman meant a citizen not languishing in famine, not afraid of the tribe across the water, a citizen free to live in peace or at least to strive and know that peace can exist. A person surrounded by friends, yes allies and enemies, both envied and feared, loved and hated. To be Roman meant the survival of Rome above all other considerations. To be Roman meant they could imagine no other method of living, nor desire one if presented. SPQR, Pax

 

 

Fortis fortuna adiuvat.

[Pax Orbis Furius]

Part II

 

What did it mean to be a Roman? A question that I find quite interesting, even though this topic seems to have died long ago, I still cannot help but think of this. I do not think that we can ever fully define Roman anymore then we can define ourselves fully. The process of becoming a person is just that a becoming, a matter of evolutionary behavioral change. However, it is possible to determine with fair accuracy what the ideal of Roman behavior was thought to be. Imperfect as all humans are, today as in antiquity, the ideal Roman did not exist, but today as in antiquity the rules of perfect behavior, the ideal, were well known. Vastly removed from Rome as we are in cultural evolution we cannot help but notice the differences, the similarities, however, can be just as startling. It is these similarities that interest me the most, as such, the list below contains many of keen interest, to me and, I hope, all of you. The following list of Latin sayings show, in some small measure, the opinions a few notable Romans thought a Roman should be: (I enjoy Latin phrases way too much, I hope I do not bore to many citizens with this post)

 

Ubi concordia, ibi victoria - Where is the unity, there is the victory. (Publius Syrus)

Dulce bellum inexpertis - War is sweet for those who haven't experienced it. (Pindaros)

Satius est impunitum relinqui facinus nocentis, quam innocentem damnari - It is better that a crime is left unpunished than that an innocent man is punished. (Corpus Iuris Civilis)

O curas hominum! O quantum est in rebus inane! - Ah, human cares! Ah, how much futility in the world! (Lucilius)

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori - It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country. (Horace)

Unus multorum - One of many. (Horace)

Si vis amari, ama - If you wish to be loved, love. (Seneca)

Errare humanum est - To err is human. / It is human to err. (Seneca)

Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for the war. (Vegetius)

Dum spiramus tuebimur - While we breathe, we shall defend

Spemque metumque inter dubiis - Hover between hope and fear. (Vergil)

Cotidie damnatur qui semper timet - The man who is constantly in fear is every day condemned. (Syrus)

Dum spiro, spero - While I breathe, I hope. (Cicero)

Sol omnibus lucet - The sun shines upon us all. (Petronius)

Exitus acta probat - The outcome proves the deeds. (the end justifies the means) (Ovid)

Manus manum lavat - One hand washes the other. The favor for the favor. (Petronius)

Ut sementem feceris, ita metes - As you sow, so shall you reap. (Cicero)

Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate provided that they fear. (Seneca)

Dimidium facti qui coepit habet - Half is done when the beginning is done. (Horace)

Vae victis! - Woe to the conquered! (vanquished) (Livy)

O tempora, O mores! - Oh, the times! Oh, the morals! (Cicero)

Cura nihil aliud nisi ut valeas - Pay attention to nothing except that you do well. (Cicero)

Multi famam, conscientiam pauci verentur - Many fear their reputation, few their conscience. (Pliny)

Venienti occurrite morbo - Meet the misfortune as it comes. (Persius)

Medice, cura te ipsum! - Physician, heal thyself! (Versio Vulgata)

Omnia mea mecum porto - All that is mine, I carry with me. (My wisdom is my greatest wealth) (Cicero)

Medici graviores morbos asperis remediis curant - Doctors cure the more serious diseases with harsh remedies. (Curtius Rufus)

Culpam poena premit comes - Punishment closely follows crime as its companion. (Horace)

Mors ultima linea rerum est - Death is everything's final limit. (Horace)

Summum ius, summa iniuria - The extreme law is the greatest injustice. (Cicero)

Crudelius est quam mori semper timere mortem - It is more cruel to always fear death than to die. (Seneca)

Crux - Puzzle

Periculum in mora - There is danger in delay. (Livy)

Vestis virum reddit - The clothes make the man. (Quintilianus)

Perpetuo vincit qui utitur clementia - He is forever victor who employs clemency. (Syrus)

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero - Seize the day, trust as little as possible in tomorrow. (Horace)

Panem et circenses - Bread and circuses. Food and games to keep people happy. (Juvenalis)

Male parta male dilabuntur - What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost. (Ill-gotten gains seldom prosper.) (Cicero)

Fallaces sunt rerum species - The appearances of things are deceptive. (Seneca)

Vitam regit fortuna, non sapientia - Fortune, not wisdom, rules lives. (Cicero)

Fas est et ab hoste doceri - It's proper to learn even from an enemy. (Ovid)

Vitanda est improba siren desidia - One must avoid that wicked temptress, Laziness. (Horace)

Hoc tempore obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit - In these days friends are won through flattery, the truth gives birth to hate. (Terence)

Homines libenter quod volunt credunt - Men believe what they want to. (Terentius)

Vitiis nemo sine nascitur - No-one is born without faults. (Horace)

Malum consilium quod mutari non potest - It's a bad plan that can't be changed. (Publilius Syrus)

Pacta sunt servanda - Agreements are to be kept. (Cicero)

Salus populi suprema lex - The safety of the people is the supreme law. (Cicero)

Malum quidem nullum esse sine aliquo bono - There is, to be sure, no evil without something good. (Pliny the Elder)

Trahimur omnes laudis studio - We are all led on by our eagerness for praise. (Cicero)

Medio tutissimus ibis - You will go safest in the middle. (Moderation in all things) (Ovid)

Patria est communis omnium parens - Our native land is the common parent of us all. (Cicero)

Mendacem memorem esse oportet - A liar needs a good memory. (Quintilianus)

Tantum eruditi sunt liberi - Only the educated are free. (Epictetus)

Mens agitat molem - The mind moves the matter. (Vergil)

Imperium et libertas - Empire and liberty. (Cicero)

Probitas laudatur et alget - Honesty is praised and left in the cold. (Juvenal)

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est - A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands. (Seneca)

Mens regnum bona possidet - An honest heart is a kingdom in itself. (Seneca)

Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit - He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow. (Ovid)

Qui omnes insidias timet in nullas incidit - He who fears every ambush falls into none. (Pubilius Syrus)

Omnium rerum principia parva sunt - Everything has a small beginning. (Cicero)

Risu inepto res ineptior nulla est - There is nothing more foolish than a foolish laugh. (Catullus)

Res severa est verum gaudium - True joy is a serious thing. (Seneca)

Mens sana in corpore sano - A sound mind in a sound body. (Juvenalis)

 

Pede poena claudo - Punishment comes limping. Retribution comes slowly, but surely. (Horace)

 

Mus uni non fidit antro - A mouse does not rely on just one hole. (Plautus)

Suum cuique pulchrum est - To each his own is beautiful. (Cicero)

Pulvis et umbra sumus - We are dust and shadow. (Horace)

 

 

 

 

Sit vis vobiscum - May the Force be with you. Pax

[Ursus]

This is what I had in mind. You have singlehandedly rescued this abortion of a thread, Pax Orbis Furius. You are my hero and new favorite member.

[Favonius Cornelius]

I think I even see some new authors in there possibly. Bravo Furius!