Philosophy

[Novosedoff]

48 minutes ago, caesar novus said:

Out of all the 3rd world police states and commie countries I visited, old Russia was unique. Police were intimidating everyone like foxes watching a henhouse. Explicit sinister behavior did not endear folks to the Marxism they enforced, which was the original point.

For US case, you should read Heather Mac Donald's book or articles on the war on cops in the US. Statistics show the opposite of your anecdote based impressions.  White cops are hesitating and being massacred by trying to halt black on black crime. Rather it is black cops who are tough with black perps. Everything is around the ratio of 10, like what are the chances of cops being shot rather than killing someone. Social media ruins all by fake narratives, and doesn't report the usual situation of juries declaring cops not guilty. Now the progressive response is to axe cop numbers and historic dropping crime trends are exploding upward in these places.

Well, I mean apparently you are older than me because I barely touched the years under Andropov (he went west very quickly) to remember such details as your memories of Soviet police. 

Though I do have some good knowledge of American statistics and demographics, including the widely available figures from the FBI reports and some comments from my Russian friends who settled down in the US, I don't think that it would be fair from my side to argue with you because I've never lived in the US to witness what the life is like by my own eyes. But my understanding from what I read and watch is that the US is a pretty much tough country and crackdowns on the political activists etc ain't uncommon just like in Russia 🙂 But it is true to notice that although the US is known to have rather loose control over free sales of arm guns in many US states (unlike Russia where free turnover of guns is basically prohibited), in Russia we have the homicide rate almost twice above the US' rate. 

 

PS. I think we are about to kill the thread started by dnewhous. Perhaps we should open up a new thread to settle our understanding of social differences between Russia and the US   🙂

Edited January 3, 2022 by Novosedoff

[dnewhous]

So I'm watching some beatnik movies. 

Free Rider - the life aint' worth the ending

Motorcycle Diaries - K, starts and ends in Venezuela.  The ranch is in Argentina.  This is a rich kid who decides to go poor for a while, which means he frequently comes across as a gentleman.

Putting this Beatnik stuff in order is hard, because you have the release of the movie, the publication of the book, and then there's the setting.  I'm going to say the original beatnik movie is East of Eden, released in 1955 and set in 1917.

Ghost Rider (2007) Mephistopheles looks a lot like Evel Knievel.

Mystic River (2003) similar to Rebel without a Cause (1955) starring James Dean.

I am Evel Knievel (2015) set in the 70s.

Free Ride (2013) set in the 1970s.  This comes closest to a crime does pay narrative.

Easy Rider (1969) another Jack Nicholson appearance.  The beatniks get shot by rednecks at the end.

Hells Angels on Wheels (1962)

Mystery Science Theater 3000 (1992, regular publication 2016, setting 1960): Beatnik, the take on this movie is kind of dour, according to the IMDB this is a movie from the Philippines.  It fits the MST3K idiom.

On the Road (2012) book of same name by Jack Kerouac 1959 first edition 1955.  Also cited in Quantum Leap episode "Rebel without a Clue."  set Sept 1, 1958.  Basically, he has sex with his friend's ex-wife and writes a book about it.  I would also point out that actress Kristen Stuart recently played second fiddle to Dakota Fanning in the Runaways (2010) where she plays Joan Jett, so her selection for this movie was rather anti-climactic.

Motorcycle Diaries (2013) book published 1995 narrative: 1952

Rebel without a Cause (1955) the book is Rebel Without a Cause: The Hypnoanalysis of a Criminal Psychopath (1944)

East of Eden (1955) setting 1917 the John Steinbeck novel has nothing to do with it.  The movie is so boring I don't know what is happening.

 

Also, Copernicus came before Galileo. 

Now I remember the essential arguments of why Galileo wasn't that important.  First, the Greek philosopher Aristarchus insisted that the planets' orbits were circular, therefore he is not considered heliocentric by historians.  Copernicus is considered the first heliocentrist because he added the theory that the planets orbits were elliptical.  Also, Galileo's telescope wasn't very good.  I do not remember the defect.  It was Johann Keppler who invented the telescope who came after Galileo.

"In the third century BC the Greek astronomer Aristarchus of Samos came up with the alternative suggestion that, in fact, the Sun might be at the centre of everything, and that it was light from the Sun that was illuminating the Moon. This heliocentric, or Sun-centred, model would better explain the observed motion of the planets and the changes in their brightness."

Dunkley, Jo. Our Universe (p. 13). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

Third century means Hellenistic Greece.  That is, Greece under Macedonia.  Past the golden age.

The problem with "Our Universe" is it is written by a astrophysicist rather than an astronomer.  The old National Geographic issue needs to be updated because planetary models have changed, see the wikipedia, but this book is not good enough.  We need astronomy as taught to astronomers.  A young adult book.

The planetary models in "The Planets" from the Smithsonian are not up to date either.

Edited January 21, 2022 by dnewhous

[dnewhous]

Beatnik culture - can be traced to resistance to the culture of the Roman Republic.  The second battle of orders created a new level of patrician called "marquise" that is for well to do farmers.  One of the premises of peerage is that subsistence farming does not work.   The Romans discovered that you have to make farmers nobility for them to be productive.

Another point of view is that because rednecks are so irrationally violent, you might as well be a beatnik.  

 

I forgot the original nice philosophy book from Greece is the Art of Rhetoric by Aristotle.

There is a quote from Mein Kamp the kindle version that I want to cite

"An illustration of the extent to which people have so often been led astray nowadays is afforded by the fact that not infrequently one hears mothers in so-called ‘better’ circles openly expressing their satisfaction at having found as a husband for their daughter a man who has already sown his wild oats, etc. As there is usually so little shortage in men of this type, the poor girl finds no difficulty in getting a mate of this description, and the children of this marriage are a visible result of such supposedly sensible unions."

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf (p. 258). Pharos Books Pvt. Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

I think Adolf Hitler is dead wrong about that.  I can't find the quote about equanimity but I am looking for it.

Another quote

"The practical outcome of the Austrian Kulturkampf was negative."

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf (p. 130). Pharos Books Pvt. Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

What exactly was the culture ware with Austria?  Whether or not France should be invaded I suppose.  Why exactly is Adolf obsessed with Vienna?  He spent 5 years there in poverty and has a grudge against himself it seams.

Also, Adolf wants a big army.  Isn't the larger size of Prussian cities a good thing?

A quote where he might be right,

"A sad symptom of decline was manifested by the fact that in the case of many ‘art centres’ the sign was posted on the entrance doors: For Adults Only."

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf (p. 265). Pharos Books Pvt. Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

If children can't enjoy what you are doing, what's the point some would ask?

Edited February 2, 2022 by dnewhous

[dnewhous]

Oh my God, the Greek are perverts.  Some effort is made at reuniting Marina with her father, Pericles, after Antiochus porks his own daughter instead of marrying her to Pericles.  The purpose - losing her virginity.  They can't figure out any other way to do it.  They also don't talk about it directly often.  I'm so glad the Romans came and kicked their ass.

It does appear that Tyr is Athens, and that the king of Antioch/Byzantium is supposed to be the high king of the Greeks.  In the Iliad, the high king of the Greeks is Agamemnon, king of Mycenae, which is accurate for the time.  According to the wikipedia, the 6th layer of Troy is the Troy of the Iliad.  That layer is by far the largest.

 

There can be no doubt that the German people would not have stood on the field of battle for four and a half years to fight under the battle slogan ‘For the Republic,’ and least of all those who created this grand institution.

Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf (p. 433). Pharos Books Pvt. Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

Idea reused in Knights of the Old Republic.

Also, the print version uses the term "seeker" a concept uses/misused in Babylon 5 episode "Grail."

Edited February 22, 2022 by dnewhous

[dnewhous]

There are two web site, brainscape and proprofs.com (a little easier than brainscape) that have bible study flashcards that can be amusing, like did you know "Corinthize" means "fornicate?"

Also, Raphael is God in Faust.  In the Book of Thel it is saint Michael.  The thing about Raphael is that he is not "sainted" and he plays a curious role in Paradise Lost.  The holy trinity, I am sure though, is Michael, Daniel, and Raphael.  Faust has Raphael, "Gabriel", and Michael.  For a little while there was a correction and Gabrielle was spelled correctly.  I assure you, Gabrielle is a girl!  I know, this is where philosophy runs into theology which runs into fiction.

What the Book of Thel says is potentially more interesting than Faust.  Someone make a deal with the devil to be a musician.  Well....

The book of Thel is brief and it is supposed to take place in heaven.  Heaven is nice.  An angel who is a virgin is free to pontificate.  She even conducts a scientific experiment.  She finds a worm.  The context of the worm is not clear.  Science stuff - worms are worthless to the biosphere.  They are a sign heaven is flawed.  It's a sign that you can be damned even in heaven.  So she clings to her virginity.  This is a sign that angels have a conscience, they are concerned with children.

Now I've gotten to the contract- Faust is saying the Austrian emperor made deal with the devil.  Maybe that's what Adolf Hitler was after.

The American version is based on Robert Johnson going to the crossroads in the 1930s.  The shooting locations for the movie Crossroads look more promising than the locations described online.  In particular, Vicksburg, MS.

The Sophists hatred of democracy makes me wonder if mankind planned settlement of the Americas for centuries.

Edited March 30, 2022 by dnewhous

[dnewhous]

On 10/7/2021 at 2:32 AM, dnewhous said:

Philosophy lends itself to sociology, whilst psychology lends itself to criminology.

Paradise Lost by John Milton Norton critical edition is my choice // essential theology.  Michael is Michael I Ledeen.  Angels and Demons (1967) features him prominently.  The movie is no longer available.  His likeness is in the character creation of Eye of the Beholder - the knight with long black hair.  He is the man appearing in the old testament as the "lord, thy God" not Jehovah.  This explain his appearance in Monty Python an the Quest for the Holy Grail.  I wish there were an unredacted version of this.  In the audiobook version, Michael and Satan exchange several strikes and parries in their sword fight, and near the end the angel Uria is watching everything.  I believe the angel Uria can be related to the movie the Color Purple, the song "Amaranth" by Nightwish, which means the color purple, and "The Name of the Rose" by Iron Maiden.  Also, the show Explorers.  At the end, that's supposed to be her.

The Code of Hammurabi by LW King. Older than the 10 commandments, I looked here to find out what adultery means.  Not exactly uplifting stuff.  It has to do with a separated, married couple

"If she had been a bad wife, the Code allowed him to send her away, while he kept the children and her dowry; or he could degrade her to the position of a slave in his own house, where she would have food and clothing. She might bring an action against him for cruelty and neglect and, if she proved her case, obtain a judicial separation, taking with her her dowry. No other punishment fell on the man. If she did not prove her case, but proved to be a bad wife, she was drowned. If she were left without maintenance during her husband's involuntary absence, she could cohabit with another man, but must return to her husband if he came back, the children of the second union remaining with their own father. If she had maintenance, a breach of the marriage tie was adultery. Wilful desertion by, or exile of, the husband dissolved the marriage, and if he came back he had no claim on her property; possibly not on his own."

Hammurabi. The Code of Hammurabi . Kindle Edition.

The Book of Rites by Confucius  This beginning of Chinese philolosophy says that there are 4 occupations farmer, artisan, scholar, merchant

The Art of War by Sun Tzu (Chinese)

The Five Dialogues by Plato, Jowett edition (origin of "swan song"), the hypothetical swan song would be for Socrates.  This translation translates Stygian with an 'a' like Paradise Lost.  This version has a nice meaning to "swan song'" as the final performance before entering heaven.  There is a dispute in the translations over the meaning of "swan song."

Protagoras by Plato, the origin of "man is the measure of all things" and agnosticism.

Symposium by Plato (Butcher's wife seams to refer to this)
The Republic by Plato // essentially predicts a future democracy and does not think it will ever equal the Republic of Rome
Plato's Theory of Knowledge (makes a reference to The Republic's, "Knowledge and Opinion," which indicates it is not a complete work)

Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle // Aristotle was a student of Plato, an investigation into the nature of good and evil

The Art of Rhetoric by Aristotle // The first nice Greek philosopher

Selected Speeches by Demosthenes // This would be a brief Athenian silver age after the defeat of Sparta by the Boeotian league and before the Macedonian conquest

Tao te Ching by Lao Tzu.  Confucianism is older, this is the quintessential taoism book because it mentions the "three treasures."

How to Win an Argument by Marcus Tullius Cicero

Tetrabiblos by Claudius Ptolemy - the classical book on astrology and geocentrism.  Written under the Macedonian empire.  Claudius Ptolemy was a mathematician, general of Alexander the Great, and pharaoh of Egypt.

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius // a stoic philosopher and Roman emperor

Confessions 2nd edition by Saint Augustine

The Rule of Saint Benedict by Saint Benedict

New beginnings, Old baggage by Joseph Fiore  // Joseph of Arimathea
The Complaint of Nature Alain of Lille (famous quote "All roads lead to Rome.")

Summa Theologica by Saint Thomas Aquinas

Summa of the Summa by Peter Kreeft // confirms the meaning of "marriage debt"

Death Judgement Heaven Hell by Saint Alphonsus Liguori  // authentic images from the Sistine Chapel of the Final Judgement

Raphael, Painter by Stephanie Storey  // see the movie Faust, Raphael is supposed to be God.  Theologically, he's supposed to be the Holy Ghost and Michael I Ledeen is God the father.

Magna Carta by King John of England

Utopia by Thomas More (late 15th early 16th, the copyright information is quizzical)

The Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres by Nicolaus Copernicus  // heliocentrism

Galileo's Mistake by Wade Rowland // they mean heliocentrism.  Which makes me wish that Hubble had worked.  Then Christianity might embrace the Copernican revolution.  Maybe we should have waited for Christianity to embrace the Copernican Revolution before we tried?  A papal bull on the side of liberalism might have helped.  It should have been designed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Caltech.  The best ground observatory is at The University of Chicago.  See Star Trek TNG episode "First Contact"

The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Mushashi (martial arts philosophy from Japan.  This is 16th century.  You would need to go back to the 11th century for the first book that is potentially translatable, but it is considered an undercooked philosophy)

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli

A Model of Christian Charity (1630) by John Winthrop // this is the sermon that is the theological basis of American exceptionalism, the original American philosopher, and a Democrat

Principles of Philosophy (1644) by Rene Descartes // I think therefore I am

A Pigsah sight of Palestine and the Confines Thereof by Thomas Fuller (2017) // Origin of the phrase "it is always darkest before dawn."  Conservatives parody Christianity with the phrase "time before dawn."  Originally pubbed about 1650.  I think this is an English commentary on America

Democracy in America by Alexis de Toqueville  French commentary on America

Common Sense by Thomas Paine  American revolutionary justificiation

Two Treatises of Government and a Letter Concerning Toleration by John Locke   post revolutionary American philosophy

An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke  post revolutionary American philosophy

Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith // I am not overly impressed but I hear people react better before you take economics if you read it

Critique of Pure Reason, Critique of Practical Reason, Critique of Judgement by Immanuel Kant, a trilogy // calls itself "telelogy"  defines "theurgy" which is a term used in Civilization II Gold the fantasy world.  Also has the term "crude matter" used in Star Wars.

Discourse in the Sciences and the Arts by Jean Jacques Rousseau

Discourse on Inequality by Jean Jacques Rousseau

An Essay on the Principle of Population by Thomas R Malthus

Elements of the Philosophy of the Right (1821) by Georg Willhelm Friedrich Hegel

The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx

Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche

The Strenuous Life (1899) by Theodore Roosevelt (American president)

On the Shortness of Life (1900) by Lucius Seneca

Bushido The Soul of Japan (1905) by Inazo Nitobe (modern martial arts philosophy - Japanese) // didn't realize how recent this was

The Principles of Political Economy and Taxation (1911) by David Ricardo // the world's most important book on economics.  Published after Mises, but thought through beforehand

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler (pubbed 2021, translators note: 1939) // parodied as Mein Bungle by Tom Toles

The Road to Serfdom (1944) by Friedrich A Hayek  American economics

The Four Cardinal Virtues (1966) by Josef Piper  // This modern book and What Christians Believe by CS Lewis are what I was raised to believe.  The book by Joseph Fiore is supposed to be the best, but I am not familiar with it. // Prudence, Justice, Fortitude, and Temperance

The Open Society and it's Enemies by Karl Raimund Popper (1994) orig pub 1945

On the Road by Jack Kerouac (1976) orig pub 1959 // see Quantum Leap episode "Rebel without a Clue"

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics by Michael Wheeler (1976) // an attempt to derail supply side economics before Reagan had credibility

The Right to Private Property by Jeremy Waldron (1991)

Evil by Roy F Baumeister (1997)

Private Truths, Public Lies by Timur Koran (1998)  // I remember this one sounds potentially interesting

Informed Consent by Jessica W Berg (2001)

Anger: Wisdom for Cooling the Flames (2002)  // Buddhism

Lies, and the Lying Liars who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right (2003) by Al Franken

What Christians Believe by CS Lewis (2005) author died 1963 so this has bee laying around for a long time, I swear people have been quoting this my whole life

Book of Concord by Martin Luther 2nd edition 2006, first edition 2005 original Latin edition published 1580, Geman edition 1584.  This identifies the Holy Spirit as the one we call God and explains Faust and Nosferatu?  Looks like the same actor.  Ahem.

Ethics for dummies
Philosophy for dummies
Existentialism for Dummies
Existentialism is a Humanism by Jean Paul Satre (2007)
Taoism for dummies
Confucianism for dummies

Christianity for dummies
Catholicism for dummies

Anatomy of the State (2009) by Murray Rothbard.  I remember this being an older work, back when Rothbard was young, spry, and taken seriously.

The Myth of the Rational Voter by Bryan Caplan (2010)

Rape is Rape by Jody Raphael (2013)

Jesus' Copernican Revolution by James P Danaher (2016) // this is a reference to heliocentrism and Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion

Star Finder! by Doctor Maggie Adarin Pocock (2017) // a Smithsonian publication, this is the best book I've found on constellations, which are an important branch of knowledge for serenity

there needs to be a better book.  The Zodiac is the most important 12 constellations.  

Materialism by Terry Eagleton (2017)

Modern Slavery by Siddarth Kara (2017)

Birth Control and American Modernity (2018)

Then they Came for Me by Matthew D Hockenos (2018)  // about the Holocaust

How Marriage became One of the Sacraments by Philip L Reynolds (2018)

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Evan Mandery (2019) //the original 1905 publication was in Russia, considered an incomplete work, this is supposed to be the full version

Understanding Logic: The First Order of Reasoning by Love Eckenberg, et al. (2019) Yale ties philosophy into first order logic, and mathematics

Welfare Populism and Welfare Chauvinism by Bent Greeve (2019)

Sex Trafficking by Siddarth Kara (2020)  // A key ethical dilemma is when prostitution, which is legal in most of the world, degenerates into sex trafficking

The Ethics of Beauty by Timothy G Patitsas (2021)

Active Inference by Thomas Parr (2022)

Indivisible: Daniel Webster and the Birth of American Nationalism by Joel Richard Paul (2022)  // American nationalism explained here

How Not to Be Helpful by JJ Harlan (2022)

Sociology for Dummies. 

 

[dnewhous]

The difference between libertinism and hedonism is whether is is permissible to have sex with your children.  Hedonism, which is Egyptian yes you can; with libertinism, which is English, no you can't.

[guidoLaMoto]

Is it just my imagination, or is that really the theme from Twilight Zone (do-do-doo-do, do-do-doo-do) playing as I scan this thread?

My only recollection about studying philosophy was from my first year of college. We all took a required History of Western Civilization course. A neighbor in the dorm came into my room and asked if I had a copy of that Sophocles book (he pronounced it Sof-o-kulz, rhymes with popsicles) we were supposed to read? "Yea," I replied, "On the shelf there next to the copy of Testicles (I pronounced it "Test-i-kleez)......He didn't catch on.

[dnewhous]

Princeton requires a philosophy class as general education.  Since then I have also discovered that it is pre-law at Caltech.  I was examining the material and wondered how it compared to the study of  history.