The Dacians

[diegis]

First,sory for my english,i am a Romanian guy(probably i do best with latin).The north Thracians have gived two names,by antiq writers,Getae(Geti),by greek writers,and Daciae(Daci),by romans writers.First historical write info. about Getae people was gived by Herodot.He say that the only people who opose to Darius the First,persian king(who start a campagne against Scyth tribes in 513/514 BC,with 700 000 fighters and 600 ships,probably an exagerate nombers),was Getae tribes.Arrian,a greek historian,tell about a one day campagne of Alexander the Great,in north of danube,against same Getae.The leader of Thracia province of Macedonia,Zopyrion,try,in 326/325 BC,to conquer greek cities from Black Sea,and made a connection with Alexander army on Caucasus Mounts.Because he pass over Getae teritory,his army(30 000 fighters,almost his Alexander army)was destroyed,somwhere,in Getian fields,and Zopyrion was killed.Acording with Pausanias,another greek historian,in 300/299 BC,an army of Lysimach,the macedonian king of Thracia,leaded by his son Agatocle was defeatead by Getae king Dromihete,and Agatocle take it in prison.Was released couple years after,but his father,Lisimach,try,in 292 BC,to conquer himself the Dromihete kingdom,with an army a 100 000 warriors(probably an exagerate nombers by historians).He was defeted too,and forced to sign a peace and give his daugther as wife to Getae king.In far east,one of the Getae tribes,Masagetae,defeat and kill Cirus the 2-nd(the Great),a persian king.One of the two most important Geto-dacian kings was Burebista(82-44 BC),who realise the unification of all geto-dacian tribes,and became <the first and the most important of all Thracians kings>.Dio Cassius say that in his time,dacian society was spread in two classes,tarabostes-the nobles,and comati,the common people.the slaves was in property of state,and a little nomber in property of nobles,but treated like inferior members of family,not like in greek and roman world.The famous Strabon historian say that Burebista was able to rise,under his <draco>flags(a metalic wolf head continued with a cloth snake body)200 000 fighters.In 60 BC Burebista start a campagn against celts tribes from central Europe,who threat the west dacian borders.The campagne was a succes,and celts was almost exterminated(the survivors retreat in today Helvetia,acording with Caesar,in <De bello Gallico>.The west border of Dacia was push until today Slovacia and Germany.Iordanes(a Goth historian who claim that Getae was the ancestors of Goths)say that Geto-dacians,on the great priest Deceneu advice,atack and burn the lands of Germans(especialy the Francs tribe lands).The romans hope of a Dacians advance and a long fight with Germans tribes,but Burebista turn in south,in Macedonia and Illirya,and in 55 BC,in east and conquer the greek cities on the Black Sea,and heavily defeat the Sarmatians and Bastarne tribes(archeological discoveries prouve that in some regions they almost end to exist .His kingdom was now from north of Black Sea until today Germany,and from today Poland in north until to Haemus Mounts(today Balkans)in south.Burebista try to help Pompei against Caesar,but Pompei,forced by aristocrats from his camp,start the batlle from Pharsalus,before the dacian help arrive,and was defeated.Caesar plan a revenge,and build,in Macedonia an army to 16 legions and arround 10 000 cavalryman.He have a fantastic plan,to atack and conquer Parthia,and than,from Caucasus Mounts to arrive in north of Black Sea and atack Dacia from surprise,from east.Unfortunately from both leaders,both was assasinated by rebels arisocrats,almost in the same time,Caesar in senat,and Burebista short time after,to a haunt.Dacian kingdom was spread in 4 and than in 5 parts.But,same Iordanes say,in winter of 85/86 AC,when king in Dacia was Duras,a dacian army pass over frozen Danube and atack roman province of Moesia(a very unusual season for war,in that time).The army,leaded very probably by the future king Decebal,the nephew of Duras,destroy the roman garnisons,and killed even the roman leader of province,Oppius Sabinus.As revenge,emperor Domitian start a campagn against Dacians,now re united under King Decebal.In 87 AC Cornelius Fuscus,the <prefect pretorium>,with an army of 5-6 legions and numerous aux. units,atack Dacia,but is atract into an ambush and killed.His army was desroyed.Domitian dont give up,and next year send general Tettius Iulianus to atack.In battle of Tapae(today <iron gates of Transilvania>)romans have a local succes,but they cant to advance, and Domitian is forced to sign a humiliate peace.he was forced to pay money to his <clientelar> king Decebal,and send instructors and engineers for his army and fortification sistem.This reason,and the fact the Dacia was one of the most rich country in that time,was the reason for emperor Traian to start a new war,in 101-102,continued with a new one in 105-106.He have succes just in part,and conquer the south,the south east,the sothwest and the center of Dacia,after a bloody and fierce war,even if have the most important roman army(150 000 fighters,15-20 legions and many aux. troops,alae and cohortes).On Traian column from Rome,and to Monument from Adamclisi(south east Romania,where was another great and bloody fight)was only picture and sculpture who represent roman legionares wounded,tortured or killed by enemies,in all Roman history.It is say that into a battle of Tapae(another one),Traian himself was forced to tore his clothes,to make bandages from his soldiers,because was a such a big number,that usual bandages was not enough.After Traian conquer the Sarmisegetuza,capital of Dacia,the eroic king Decebal comited suicide,to avoid to be captured.After just 165 years,after many revolts of ocupied dacians and invasions of free Dacians(especialy Costoboci and Carpi tribes,the last give the name for Carpatian mounts),alone,or sometimes in alliance with Goths,in 271,emperor Aurelian retreat the Roman administration from north of Danube,and Dacia become again free in all the teritory(even if dont have anymore a well know king,and must to fight against migrators people or even other roman tentatives of conquer,especialy from Eastern Roman Empire).Many antiq writers consider the Geto-Dacians one of the most important and warrior people of antiq times(especialy because of their religious belives in one principal god ,Zamolxis ,who teach them they are imortal,and the most good way to die and go to <Another World>,a world of eternal happy and freedom,is to die in battle).Ovidius,the exiled roman poet,say:<Getae who believe in Mars>and Getae was <the most true representation of Mars-Verissima Martis imago>.Vergilius,the greatest roman poet,sed<the old Mars Gradivus,who defend the Getic fields>.Emperor Iulianus(331-363AC),the nephew of Constantin the Great,say:<The Getae people was much warrior people than any other humans that lived anytime,and this not just because of strenght of their bodies,but too becouse was convicted to be like this by the honored Zamolxis.They believ they not die,but just change their home>.Vegetius sed<it is well know that allways Dacians was warriors in such way,that is say that the histories about god Mars himself was born to them>.And Herodot,the "father of history",sed about Geto-dacians<the most braves and rights from all Thracians>.

[PerfectimusPrime]

Aargh, please use the word-program or other writing programs and break up you text, so it is easy to read...

[Onasander]

It wasn't that bad, I got the basic grasp of that he was trying to say. Thank you

 

You spoke of Trajans Column in detail, it reminded me, a few scenes show the romans in their fortified positions with what looks to be some kind of forked slingshot, then it shows pictures of them on their ROMAN CHARIOTS with what seems to be the same contraption mounted on it. What was the latin name for this?

[Favonius Cornelius]

You sure you arent mistaking it for just a ballista? And the chariots wagons that transported them?

[Onasander]

I doubt it. From memory, it looked from the drawings I saw like two verticle poles with a horizontal one attaced to one of them, with a soldier behind it 'manning' it. I figured the horizantal bar was cranked back and then launched once it slammed into the other vertical bar (in one of the scenes, the horizontal bar goes a little pass the vertical one). The median space in relationship to the horizontal bar and the two vertical bars could act as a leaf site similar to the M203 Grenade Launcher (though that's just pure conjecture on my part). I was impressed that the romans had a piece of machinery that small and flexible enough to be used both for static fortifications and more mobile chariots.

 

I remembered when I studied this (I was sixteen, now 22) I thought there might be the possibility that it was a device used by engineers used in measuring the angles of the fortification, but the fact the chariots had them made it much less likely, unless they used the mobile chariots for some kind of frontline chartographer mapping depositions before (or during) battle; which in my opinion would be even more impressive, but on the other hand, that much more unlikely. I never knew the name for the device, so I just always assumed it was one of the mystery machines listed by Vegetius that nobody seems to know anymore.

[Onasander]

http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public...ANARTILLERY.htm

 

Shows pictures of what I was talking about half way down the page, first five actual pictures, not the drawings.

[diegis]

As i say in my previous post,sorry for my english .About the machines who ask Onasander,i believe is posible to be one of this two:-<falces murales>,or <terebrae>.<Falces murales>was a siege machine,a sort of giant sickle or scythe.This schyte is pushed with force and enter betwen two stone blocks of wall and break it.The second,<terebrae>,is a special drill use to perforate the wall.But i am not quite sure.

[Onasander]

Ohhhhh, drills mounted on chariots..... mobile battlefield dentristy.

 

Are their any primary sources in Romania on Roman Siege Tactics during this campaign?

[diegis]

I dont know if i understand corectlly,but i think the primary sources is archeological discoveris(a verry large number).The scenes from Tropaeum Traian,from Adamclisi(south east Romania),the Traian`s column from Rome(even is not on romanian teritory)and stories of many antiq historians who write about that wars.

[Onasander]

Thanks