Roman Perceptions Of Britain

[Andrew Dalby]

The bogbodies are almost always sacrifices. They were usually bound before being executed and dumped in the bog. Its only the sterile qualities of the mud that preserved the remains.

 

I'd be careful with that! Sacrifice is very difficult to ascertain from mere ritualistic or ceremonial killing. Crucifixion was ritualistic and ceremonial, and so is the gas chamber or the electric chair. To really nail it down, you need a clear indication of religious motivation, discrete from any other possible motivations.

 

I agree with Edgewaters' doubts on this. It's always seemed to me that Tacitus (in 'Germania') provides one possible and quite convincing explanation of the "bog bodies" when he describes the method of execution for shameful crimes. It doesn't necessarily give a complete explanation but it can't be discounted as evidence.

[caldrail]

In ancient terms, sacrifices and criminal executions were often the same. The druids would sacrifice criminals for that purpose, and in a way, so did the romans at times. But I accept the criticism

[Andrew Dalby]

In ancient terms, sacrifices and criminal executions were often the same. The druids would sacrifice criminals for that purpose, and in a way, so did the romans at times. But I accept the criticism

Oh, yes, I agree that the two cannot be distinguished totally. However, I'm trying to think of another culture in which it is actually claimed, explicitly, on record, that criminals are killed as an offering to the gods. Enemy warriors, maybe, but criminals? I mean, would you expect the gods to be grateful for this? I expect you're right about the Druids but I can't remember what source supports the claim that Druids did this.

[edgewaters]

In ancient terms, sacrifices and criminal executions were often the same. The druids would sacrifice criminals for that purpose, and in a way, so did the romans at times. But I accept the criticism

Oh, yes, I agree that the two cannot be distinguished totally. However, I'm trying to think of another culture in which it is actually claimed, explicitly, on record, that criminals are killed as an offering to the gods. Enemy warriors, maybe, but criminals? I mean, would you expect the gods to be grateful for this? I expect you're right about the Druids but I can't remember what source supports the claim that Druids did this.

 

Sure ... lots of cultures had religious edicts demanding the appeasement of the gods by offering the lives of offenders as atonement. Hebrews, for instance (just read your OT, a long list of crimes God would demand you be put to death for). The idea behind it being that the laws were divine, and therefore, when someone violated them, it was the gods (not the community) who demanded satisfaction.

 

Technically, that is human sacrifice, but .... because we are a Judeo-Christian culture, and atonement sacrifice is heavily present in our religious heritage while other types of sacrifice are rejected, we have a difficulty seeing atonement sacrifice as the same thing as sacrifice done for other reasons (such as giving thanks). We usually mean that victims either volunteer or are chosen for purely spiritual reasons, not because they violated some taboo/law. When we say human sacrifice, we mean something other than atonement usually - we mean as a giving of thanks, for divination, to curry additional favour, to dedicate a building, and so on.

 

So ... if we mean human sacrifice in that way - as something other than atonement or payment for misdeeds - then it is very, very difficult to say that a culture practices human sacrifice, since we often can't know the motivations involved. Presented with a body slain in a ceremonial way, we can really say nothing unless we can establish more details. We don't know if we are looking at a victim slain because he disobeyed his father and some deity demanded that disobedient sons be slain as atonement, or if we are looking at a victim slain to ensure fertility and prosperity and chosen at random.

Edited February 23, 2007 by edgewaters

[caldrail]

The only culture I can think of that sacrificed at random was either the maya, aztec, or inca (I can't remember which one, but the inca strangled children on mountain tops). The random sacrifice indicates a culture lost in a sort of nihilistic dead end, and I remember seeing a program on tv suggesting the reason for these heart removals was appease the gods with blood and stave off the final judgement for another day. As for the bog bodies, this is a low key thing. Probably they're executions first and foremost but because the death is at the hands of the community that community must ensure not to sully its hands with the killing, so therefore the sacrifice element comes in by ritualising the killing in an 'acceptable' manner to the gods.