Roman Perceptions Of Britain

[longbow]

Some wild claims by the Romans on the inhabitants of Britain

Its such a shame theres no written record of the Celtic names the tribes called themselves,we only have the latin names such as Catuvellauni,Atrebates,Durotriges etc...

L

[Lacertus]

This is the quote of the article:

Most of Britain is marshland because it is flooded by the continual ocean tides. The barbarians usually swim in these swamps or run along in them, submerged up to the waist.

 

 

To my mind this fact should be a reply why the "Bogbodies" were found. (Forum peregriny, The Celts)

[Demson]

Bogbodies were found all over Europe, and had often died violent deaths.

 

 

Celts did write using the Greek and later Latin alphabet. They wrote only for administrative purposes - not to write down knowledge. That role was restricted to the druids.

 

 

Who the first inhabitants of Britain were, whether natives or immigrants, remains obscure; one must remember we are dealing with barbarians. But physical characteristics vary, and that very variation is suggestive. The reddish hair and large limbs of the Caledonians proclaim a German origin.

 

 

The Picts could actually be Germanics that settled there?

[Lacertus]

Bogbodies were found all over Europe, and had often died violent deaths.

 

 

Sorry! My blunder!

 

Celts did write using the Greek and later Latin alphabet. They wrote only for administrative purposes - not to write down knowledge. That role was restricted to the druids.

 

 

The Celts Alphabet

here

The ancient Celts had a form of writing called ogham (pronounced OH-yam). It was the writing of Druids and Bards. Ogham is also called 'Tree Alphabet' because each letter corresponds to a tree and an associated meaning. The letters were, in fact, engraved onto sticks as well as larger standing stones.

There is surmise that the Pict's alphabet evolved more early then other Europe's alphabets.

 

The Picts could actually be Germanics that settled there?

 

 

Pictland, was made up of a large area of what is now modern day Scotland, mainly in the low-lying coastal areas of Eastern Scotland where they sustained themselves through fishing and farming. The Picts weren't any one particular race or culture per se, but a military alliance which was formed around 100 AD to defend against the Roman invaders. The name Pict itself is believed to be derived from the Latin word Picti, "painted men". In fact, the Pictish nation out-lasted the would-be conquerors and predated the formal organization of both the Scots and Irish. Historical and archaeological records also show that they were also quite fierce warriors, judging by accounts of those whom they defeated in battle. They were the dominant military power in that area for almost 500 years.

As regards the Pict's origin they were native people of Britain and hadn't any relations to Germanics. This were the nation which lived in all territory of Europe until the Celt's migration began and replaced the Pict's tribes to West.

[Favonius Cornelius]

That's interersting, I always assumed the Picts were from Ireland or something, but they seem more formally to be an alliance of tribes grouped by the Roman's perception of them.

[Primus Pilus]

The Picts are truly one of those cultural unknowns similar to the Basques. There are plenty of theories, but nobody is precisely sure where they came from and when, and their exact genetic classification (ie. Celtic, Germanic, some other strange native development, etc.) Suffice to say though, Lacertus is right in that they developed into a sort of political entity as described, but their origination is quite hotly debated.

[Callaecus]

Bogbodies were found all over Europe, and had often died violent deaths.

I can assure you that they do not exist in Southern Europe; only in some Northern European bogs.

[WotWotius]

Yes, they are mainly found in Scotland, East Anglia, the Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden, Estonia, Finland, Germany and some parts of Poland.

[caldrail]

The bogbodies are almost always sacrifices. They were usually bound before being executed and dumped in the bog. Its only the sterile qualities of the mud that preserved the remains.

 

Originally the romans thought britain was a mysterious island out on the edge of the known world, possibly inhabited by strange monsters and wild barbarians. They were half right! This view would have persisted even after merchants traded there. In fact, the phoenicians were well acquainted with the place having traded for tin in Cornwall. It was only after Julius Caesar made his two forays there and wrote about it that the romans began waking up to the truth of what brittania was. Nonetheless, the romans persisted with britannia and only at the end of the 3rd century do we see a retreat as legions began moving home. Agricola would have conquered the place but for Domitians jealousy, although I do notice that apart from an attempt to maintain the antonine wall no further conquest of caledonia was ever undertaken. It seems the romans decided there was no value in further conquest.

[Pantagathus]

In fact, the phoenicians were well acquainted with the place having traded for tin in Cornwall.

This is one of the bigger misunderstandings of the ancient world...

 

The archaeological evidence doesn't seem to support direct trade between the Phoenicians and the Corwall tin traders. The more appropriate statement would be that the Phoenicians were aquainted with the Atlantic traders who were aquainted with Cornwall and it's tin.

[caldrail]

The phoenicians then knew of britain and where the tin was coming from, or at least some of them did. That knowledge was likely to make an adventurous merchant think seriously about visiting the place and cutting out the middleman. I'm not saying the whole phoenician fleet turned up at land's end one morning but as with roman traders in china, once a locality is known someone is going to want to visit. I accept your point that it wasn't a widespread practice. I just think some people did travel there. There is after all circumstantial evidence to suggest that jesus himself travelled through gaul and visited britain as a young man. You can pour doubt on that because it isn't proven and may only be christian boasting, but small numbers of traders did reach our shores.

[Rameses the Great]

Could Phoenician ships handle the rought Atlantic waters? I don't think there was direct trade because Phoenicia was just so far away from England.

[Gaius Octavius]

"... but as with roman traders in china, ...."

 

Off topic, but would you please expand on that?

[The Augusta]

Some wild claims by the Romans on the inhabitants of Britain

Its such a shame theres no written record of the Celtic names the tribes called themselves,we only have the latin names such as Catuvellauni,Atrebates,Durotriges etc...

L

 

I was always amused by the little footnote in Caesar's 'Conquest of Gaul' where he states that the most civilised of the Britons live in Kent! To a rough Northerner like me, we would say that perceptions haven't really changed much in 2000 years!

[caldrail]

"... but as with roman traders in china, ...."

 

Off topic, but would you please expand on that?

 

Not by much I'm afraid. I've only read a few scant sentences on the subject. We know rome and china had trade links. China wanted roman gold, Rome wanted chinese silk. They were well aware of each others existence, and it was only the distance that prevented any official dealings. Now to some extent the trade route was a relay of merchants passing goods on, but I can't believe that nobody travelled to see it. Human beings are inquisitive creatures and where potential profit is involved, they're willing to take risks. Now this means that possibly a handful of people made the journey ever. You might wonder why nothing was made of it, why a roman 'marco polo' hasn't come to our attention. I accept that, but then look at the disbelief Marco Polo encountered when he returned. He only got the credit because of the wealth he smuggled back with him. I am going to look further into this area because the possibility of ancient travel fascinates me. It wasn't impossible, people knew these lands were there, the potential gain was obvious, and so were the dangers involved.