Emperor/saint Constantine.

[Black_Francis]

Im sure we all know the historical and religious importance of the Emperor Constantine aka:

'Constantine the Great'

'Saint Constantine'

Flavius Valerius Constantinus

(AD ca. 285 - AD 337)

 

I was wondering if anyone could explain why Constantine is not seen as a Saint by the Roman Catholic Church while he is in the Eastern Orthodox Churches?

[Northern Neil]

I think its perhaps because he actually founded Constantinople. The Western, or Catholic church, always maintained a view that he had too much blood on his hands to be actually sanctified. In addition, there has always been considerable debate as to wether he actually converted to Christianity at all. But as far as the eastern church is concerned, I believe the cultural (foundation of the Byzantine state, etc) aspect swayed them.

[Black_Francis]

Thanks for your reply.

On your point about whether or not Constantine converted to Christianity... Ive done a lot of reading on the subject recently and Ive come to the conclusion that he most certainly did... You only have to read the "Oration of Constantine" to understand that he was simply too deeply involved to be using Christianity for his own ends.... especially when one considers what a mess he made of other things (wife...kids).

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf...m#P8120_3328019

I believe that the problem with Constantine is his perception of what Christianity was and how we perceive Christianity today.

Constantine claimed to simply be an instrament of divine will.. Just as Judas had to betray Jesus to bring about His triumph over death, so Constantine was condemned to have blood on his hands to further the spread and growth of Christianity.

I find it contradictory that the Roman Catholic Church claims much of its Primacy from Constantine himself and yet fails to even beatify him!

I understand that Constantine was a sinner and had blood on his hands but he repented and was converted... indeed, I see him as a model Catholic..he may well be the most important convert Christianity has ever had and his possible salvation and forgiveness to be a superb example of Gods infinite mercy!

[Primus Pilus]

Indeed, the oration would clearly identify Constantine as a devout Christian. However, its authenticity is a matter of furious debate, and I personally attribute its writing to Eusebius and not to Constantine. Compare it to Eusebius' other works and you may (or may not) see the similarity.

 

Constantine's conversion is rather irrelevent though in the big scheme of things. While whether or not he was a pagan, a christian or a combination of whatever was necessary to rule a diverse empire is unclear, its quite clear that he paved the path for Christianity to dominate the religion of the western world and began the process of brutally dismantling paganism.

[Onasander]

Technicly, I think he is a saint in the Roman Catholic Church. They don't have to 'make' him one because they already did when the eastern church recognized him as such; they were in communion with each other at the time. The Orthodox church recognizes St. Patrich of Ireland in just the same way. Until the catholic church revokes Constantine, he is still a saint in the church. Kinda like the old witchcraft laws in the US, till you actually revoke them, their still law, even if everyone ignores that fact.

[Black_Francis]

ahhh,

Very interesting, thank you for that Onasander! I had not thaught of that.

[Onasander]

Yep, I remember hearing a couple of Greek Orthodox priest talk about one out in Cinncinatti who put a statue of St. Patrick in the frontdoor, he defended his action to the metropolitan by saying he was a saint before the schism, and the metro replied though he wasn't wrong in doing this, in the future he needs to ask permission before doing so since it's thought image is decidedly more western and they didn't want to confuse people, becuase of the whole Byzantine Catholic problem (people from Orthodox churches don't always immediatly recognize the differance between Greek Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic churches till a few minutes into the mass, so they go out of thier way in making it less complicated, which is quite unfortunate for saints like Constantine and Patrick, caught up in politics not of their faith or orientation.

[Hamilcar Barca]

Constantine wasn't really a fantastic christian. The man had his son (Crispinus) poisoned and his wife (Fauna) boiled alive for conspiracies that didn't exist. Thats just the tip of the iceberg... Don't get me wrong though, he was a pretty damn good emperor compared to most.

[Lex]

Apparently Constantine kept worshipping Apollo even when he converted to Christianity. It was also custom for Christain Emperors to get baptised in their old age or on their death-bed so that that they could do all the necessary killing in their reign and be 'cleansed' and have their sins 'wiped away' by being baptised at the end.

 

Constantine was definately one of the most ambitious, dynamic and influential of Roman Emperors ever, and I believe he used the stories that he saw the cross before the battle as political leverage to gain the support of the Christians. But I also believe that he had a genuine respect for the"God of the Christians" and that later his belief eventually became quite genuine.

 

He was tall, strong, well-built and apparently good looking, well-liked by his troops, a good leader and a powerful warrior on the battlefield known to personally charge into the enemy. He was also obviously quite politically astute and could be ruthless on occassion and even really benevolent when it came to his laws. Not to mention he managed to gain sole-rule of the Empire. An amazing man, whose story would make an awesome movie.

[Segestan]

Emperor Constantine gained power by gaining the support of the ever growing Christian populations. After years of civil wars that had devastated the populations , wealth and resources and after twenty emperors had ruled through various often brutal means from 235 AD - 284 AD; Constantine became the 'Big Winner' through espousing Christianity.

Much of the History of the christian persecutions were over rival contenders for the Throne. Constantine , according to the records, was a better politician.

 

regards,

[Ursus]

I think Constantine was simply a man who saw the tides of history and decided to act upon them. Much like Caesar had done before him.

 

The vibrancy of classical paganism had been in decline for some time, due to the decline of classical society in general. It was only a question of which of the colorful Oriental faiths would capture the hearts and minds of the citizenry. Christianity had as much as 10% of the population by then. It appealed to the poor and the desperate through a combination of earthly charity and heavenly afterlife. If Constantine made Christianity legal he would gain the hearts and minds of the proletarian masses disaffected by the decline of Roman society.

 

And that's exactly what happened.

 

 

It didn't honestly take much for his successors to dismantle traditional classical paganism because those faiths, as has been mentioned, had lost their hold on the imaginations of the population. But it took a lot longer to overcome the other Oriental gods in competition with Christ. The Cult of Isis, for instance, wasn't overcome so much as absorbed into the new Cult of Mary.

 

I suppose Roman society at that point needed a new lease on life and a new direction. Was Constantine's answer the best one? I don't know. But I'm cynical about calling him a saint. I don't think he was any more of a sincere Christian than I am. If the social situation were a little different, he could just as easily have made Isis his new patron deity.

[Onasander]

And his mother?

[Zeke]

His mother was somewhat of cocktail waitresss in a Roman Inn on the Danubee. I think her name was Helena, other then giving birth to Constatine she never appears in the history books.

 

Zeke

[Ursus]

His mama was so fat, that when her beeper went off, people thought she was backing up.

[Marcus_Aurelius]

Costantine is the Charlemagne of the Orthodox Christians(including myself).