A new flag for New Zealand

[Viggen]

...not sure what to think of this,

 

New Zealand wants a new flag, and lets the public decide. IMO, none of those seem fit for a proper flag,i already feel sorry for all those little kids that have to draw the flag in school

 

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21664232-changing-national-symbols-proves-irksome-hang-up-fern

 

 

p.s.South Africa had to choose a while back its own flag and appointet luckily an expert (herald, vexillologist, and genealogist) and the result shows

 

 

 

[Centurion-Macro]

Haha! As a New Zealander I have a few opinions on the topic.

 

Basically the country is split into three main groups. The first are frustrated by the flag referendum and want no change, because they see the current flag as a traditional part of the country. The second group aggressively want to change the flag because they see the current flag as a symbol of the British Empire and of imperialism. The third group don't really care, and want the money to be spent on something else, and some suspect that it is all a plot by the Prime Minister to distract the country from his neoliberal reforms.

 

I personally do not want to see a change. I admit that flags can (and often should) adapt if the people want them to. I think Edmund Burke's idea of the organic society is useful here. If the flag were being changed because New Zealanders as a whole wanted a new flag, and if they were getting a new flag for the betterment of the country, then that would be grand and I might agree with it. But from what I see, the group that want to change the flag are not doing it for patriotic reasons but because they either dislike or are embarrassed by the nation and want to cause it harm.

 

In short, if a majority wanted a new flag, and if they were doing it for the country then I might be supportive. But right now it is more like a liberal/lefty coup, with one group of people trying to force a new flag on everyone else, ultimately leading to the detriment of the nation.

[caldrail]

I find this interesting, partly because I have family connections over there, but also the apparent divide in society. The AWI had a similar divide, with loyalists, rebels, and those not caring roughly accounting for a third each. Is this a reflection of human social dynamics as much as current politics? As I wrote not so long ago, our affection for empire is often expedient. If New Zealand now has the self-confidence to seek a virtual seperation from the colonial past, it would be difficult to stop, since the British are hardly likely to send in troops to restore a regime (and if our new Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has his way, I doubt the Commonwealth would last much longer because it symbolises connections with an imperialist past, much against his sentiments, even though he represents a left wing order that has always sought expansion in world society). India has been going through the same changes. It actively rejects colonial associations yet somehow depends on them for social cohesion. Is New Zealand going the same road?

[Centurion-Macro]

I would agree with most of what you said caldrail. I suspect the Commonwealth will collapse soon, and there are a myriad of names for the ideology that is driving it. Peter Hitchens calls it "the new liberal bigotry", Prof. Roger Scruton has called it "the culture of repudiation" and Prof. Niall Ferguson has gone so far as to dub it the ideology of "self-flagellation." Basically, it is an aggressive form of liberal leftism that has taken hold in Britain and New Zealand. It is indeed like the AWI, because it is being driven by a noisy minority to the horror of some New Zealanders and the indifference of others. Ultimately it is decisive, since New Zealand (unlike Australia) has a significant number of people who feel a residual loyalty to the 'Mother Country', the monarchy and even a certain nostalgia for the security of the old Empire. 

 

It will be interesting to see how the situation in both India and New Zealand pan out in the future. If Corbyn became Prime Minister, I wonder if he would pay India reparations?