Viggen Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Fragments of the world's oldest Koran which was found in Birmingham last month could predate the Prophet Muhammad, according to scholars.The pages were discovered bound within the pages of another Koran from the late seventh century at the library of the University of Birmingham. Written in ink in an early form of Arabic script on parchment made from animal skin, the pages contain parts of the Suras, or chapters, 18 to 20, which may have been written by someone who actually knew the Prophet Muhammad who founded the Islamic faith. It is believed that the Birmingham Koran was produced between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for Muhammed are between 570AD and 632AD. The Prophet Muhammad is thought to have founded Islam sometime after 610AD and the first Muslim community was founded in Medina in 622AD. The final authoritative written form was not completed until 650AD under the third leader Caliph Uthman. ...via Daily Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 The biggest non-story for a long time. C14 dates are notoriously non-precise, and the dates given for the parchment lie within the dates for Mohammed. So there is no validity to the claim that the parchment 'could predate Mohammed'. Just a knee-jerk reaction from jounalists and 'historians' trying to make a name for themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 The biggest non-story for a long time. C14 dates are notoriously non-precise, and the dates given for the parchment lie within the dates for Mohammed. So there is no validity to the claim that the parchment 'could predate Mohammed'. Just a knee-jerk reaction from jounalists and 'historians' trying to make a name for themselves. well its during lifetime of Mohammed, that fact alone is amazing. Imagine we could find a fragment of the new testament from eyewitness times (during Jesus life there was no written piece as far as i know?) p.s. didnt know that Oxford professors still have to make a name for themselves.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I agree that the fact that it might be during the lifetime of Mohammed is amazing. That should be the headline. On the other hand, I know that Muslims believe that Mohammed received the Quran after a visit to heaven, and I know that non-Muslim scholars instead claim a 'genesis' from Judaeo-Christian traditions. As a non Muslim, I am more inclined to the latter, but to suggest that a C14 date 'suggests' that the manuscript pre-dates Mohammed is simply headline-grabbing rather than serious historical/archaeological research. Now if the C14 date had given a range wholly before Mohammed, that would have been a story! PS I don't think Keith Small is a professor! A quick bit of research suggest that he's a Manuscript Consultant to the Bodleian Library at Oxford University. Edited August 31, 2015 by sonic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 one fragment has been dated to 578-671 AD (Arizona Lab) two framents that have been tested in Lyon (France) one to 543-643 and the other to 433-599. http://de.scribd.com/doc/130854520/The-codex-of-a-companion-of-the-Prophet-SAW-Benham-Sadeghi-Bergmann#scribd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Very small parameter date-wise then. I rest my case!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianasmith Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 An interesting story to be sure, although I do agree that RC dates, while providing a good general framework, are notoriously non-specific within that framework. BTW, a recent analysis of the Magdalene Papyri (several pages from a Codex of Matthew's Gospel) concluded that it may date much earlier than originally thought, somewhere around 70 AD instead of the mid-second century date earlier proposed. However, that interpretation is controversial to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 nice article, basically saying regardless if the age is on the early or the late spectrum of the dating range, it raises questions and challenges our traditional view on early Islam http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/keith-small/birmingham-quran_b_8101734.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 A much better article: more rational and explaining many of the complex ramifications. AND withholding judgement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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