Why Did We Change

[Pantagathus]

I have to agree that Christian doctrine changed these things. It comes down to the shunning of eugenic doctrine and embracing all of humanity & it's weaknesses...

 

Hopefully this is a phase that will pass in a few hundred+ years and humans will focus on the benefits of eugenics once again.

 

It's a shame that you can't even talk about eugenics these days without being considered a genocidal baby killer by most...

[Spurius]

Yes, a prickly subject...especially since it has been linked to totalitarian dreams of conquest.

 

It does seem to be a good rule of thumb that about 50 years has to pass before rational discussion can occur about an emotional event, or in this case an out and out horror in terms of eugenics.

[Pantagathus]

It does seem to be a good rule of thumb that about 50 years has to pass before rational discussion can occur about an emotional event, or in this case an out and out horror in terms of eugenics.

See, because of the Holocost especially people equate 'eugenics' in contemporary society with genocide.

 

As a classical scholar I think about in the purely Spartan frame of mind, basic survival of the fittest + hastening the departure of the obviously weak (through passive means...) to the greater benefit of mankind. I.E Not wasting precious resources on lost causes in the benefit of entropy.

 

At present, I see the discussion of modern eugenics focussed in the dilema of gene therepy, stem cell research etc..

[Primus Pilus]

I too am a firm believer in 'survival of the fittest'. I do not support, nor do I stand for the systematic destruction of people based on race or ethnicity, but I very much agree with allowing people to die if their lives cannot be supported naturally. (I'm not talking about machine assisted living here on an individual basis but wide scale starvation, disaster etc.)

 

If an area of the earth cannot support human life (ie arid conditions)... what sense is there in encouraging population growth by importing foods, etc?

 

Perhaps I should split this?

[Lost_Warrior]

I too am a firm believer in 'survival of the fittest'. I do not support, nor do I stand for the systematic destruction of people based on race or ethnicity, but I very much agree with allowing people to die if their lives cannot be supported naturally. (I'm not talking about machine assisted living here on an individual basis but wide scale starvation, disaster etc.)

 

If an area of the earth cannot support human life (ie arid conditions)... what sense is there in encouraging population growth by importing foods, etc?

 

 

I agree (I'm also not a fan of machine assisted living unless the person *wants* to live.)

[Marcus_Aurelius]

Christianity is the response.Rome couldn't have survived so long as an empire without wars.Christianity sinply doesn't agree with people waging bloody wars.

[Primus Pilus]

Christianity sinply doesn't agree  with people waging bloody wars.

14395[/snapback]

 

Well, except for those tiny little skirmishes called the Crusades.

[Segestan]

What Changed Us?

 

A.Centuries of Wars; between the Oligarchies power structures..aka..Kingdoms. Lead to a decline in the numbers of societies.

B. The social evolution of Representation; through a Republic , Democratic or Socialist set of doctrines. A result of the need of better organization.

C. The technological evolution of knowledge. Mechanical inventions changed productivity.

D. Christianity. The doctrine of human salvation through deeds of humanity to man. Though this basic moral formula has ever sense Christ and the missionary work of Paul , has been used , abused , misunderstood and by both faithful and enemy alike.

But nevertheless: Christianity was the New humanist Doctrine for the Slave populations. A doctrine and a way of organization, that was instrumental in leading to laws of fairness and justice that gave the common man the same rights as the King.

E. But most important and Above all: What changed the human experience after Christ was generational drama. The fact that each generation adds a new statement , a new design or flavor to life. It was a natural consequence of the ever changing human adventures that lead to Rome in the first place, and it was this 'human drama' that gave us Christ and his message of Hope and salvation.

Hope and salvation once placed in legal octrine changed the world.

 

None of these changes can nor should lead to a utopian atmosphere. Christianity is an expectation not a reality.

 

regards,

[pompeius magnus]

Did not later Christian doctrine towards end of Roman West, maybe off on date as this is not my area of expertise, condone religious wars I want to say through the writings of Augustine as long as they were for a Christian cause. So the Crusades were verified as such.

[Skarr]

On one level, life is always about survival and on another level, dependency is sometimes encouraged (either by religion or by families who act out of a sense of misguided altruism, without regard to the individual's own wishes - Terry Schaivo case, for example).

 

I think it's tough to generalize what should be done in a situation, especially when you are not part of it. I guess that if there's a disaster and you are in a position to help, by all means go and help. However, if the disaster would ultimately threaten your own survival, I guess the question here would be - who decides and do we have enough information to make this decision.

 

The bottom line is that none of these questions are easy to tackle as we live in a diverse, fractured society with even more fractured ways of making any kind of decision. The smallest error could be criticized in a big way and large errors may go completely ignored, like the fact that until disaster struck, no attention was paid on the levees holding back the sea (just to use an example of the enormity of our short sightedness - after the fact, I think there are thousands who are saying 'I told you so')

 

In a sense, we are like the fractured Republic during the days of Marius and Sulla and we probably need a Caesar in our midst. We do have a senate that is split into factions based on ideology instead of people. We have very few leaders left and it seems like TV is the new rostra where heads will be displayed.

 

Who knows where this will all lead? One thing is for sure. Nothing lasts forever. The oil in the ground seems to be running out and so is our collective patience with everything we see around us. It seems as if no one has a clue anymore and we are all fascinated by TV and keep watching people consistently shoot themselves in the foot.

 

It just proves that even after 2,000 years, nothing's really changed. Everyone hopes that one day there will be a place where you could live in peace, an Utopian paradise where every human want and need would be taken care of. This is, of course, pure wishful thinking as human beings are so full of greed and so much desire, even paradise could become a boring place in a very short while.

 

If there's a problem the world is not addressing, it's this - there are too many people for the amount of resources available. As long as you have this imbalance, you will have global problems which will only increase in magnitude as time goes on. It's a simple fact of life and unless some radical (non fossil based) technology is discovered soon, the energy crisis will soon dominate everything else.