Patiliputra- Dream of Scipio

[Onasander]

Its often assumed the Indo-Greeks reached Patiliputra, which is on the Ganges, but Cicero in his Dream of Scipio said none of his race (Scipio, I don't know to what degree Cicero was ethnically discriminating here) had made it yo the other side of the Ganges yet.

 

I'm a bit stumped when this information flow was hitting the roman west of the continuation of Greek emploits in the region. From my hazy recollection, the Greeks had to give up upon taking Patilputra due to a coup of some type in their rear, and had to pull back, and soon collapsed afterwards.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Onasander

[Pompieus]

Tarn dates the occupation of Patalaputra (Patna on the Ganges) by Menander (general of king Demetrius of Bactria) around 175-167BCE, others date it 156-153; still others (modern ethnocentricity?) deny the Bactrian Greeks occupied the city at all.  As you mentioned, the Greeks withdrew to the area of Mathura (Muttra on the Jumna) due to the invasion of Bactria from the West by Eucratides (a cousin and general of Antiochus IV?).

 

There are several Indian primary sources, but the only known Hellenic (Greek) sources are, apparently, Appolodorus of Artemita (~130-87BCE) who wrote a history of Parthia and Trogus Pompieus who was a contemporary of Livy.  Niether has survived except in fragments, references in Strabo etc. or epitomes, and both post date Scipio's death in 129 BCE.  Tarn proposed some other unknown Hellenic source used by Trogus  and there may have been others but there is no hard evidence.

 

Tarn's "Greeks in Bactria and India" and Narain's "Indo-Greeks" (1950s) and F L Holt are the most accessible "modern" works. There was lots of stuff on the coins, and the archaeology of Ai Kamun (till the site was destroyed in the current troubles) but a connected history of the Bactrian Greeks is difficult due to the lack of sources.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Pompieus

[Onasander]

Some of the philosophy of the Greeks survived, in the Mayahana tradition. Meander even has a Buddhist Sutra attributed to him, and Milarepa in his Songs has several outright formulaic Cynic sections. I know Sri Lanka recorded a lot of the Greek history post Alexander still extant, but I haven't found a good translation of this, but there are two excellent Sri Lankan websites in English on this topic. Just this early period looks murky to me.

 

Thanks for the info. Will wittle it down a bit.

 

Its a name that means nothing to many here, but storming Patiliputra is up there with sacking Athens, Baghdad, or Rome in terms of ancient history. Very important ancient city, it is 'the city' of India that mattered the most.

[Pompieus]

Is there a tradition that the Greeks sacked the city and caused "cultural" damage?  I understood that relations between the Greeks and the Mauryas were friendly, including marriage pacts.  Tarn's theory was that the Greek "invasion" was an attack on the usurper who murdered and supplanted the last Maurya king who was an ally and relative by marriage to Demetrius, king of the Bactrians.  Tarn adds the possibility that the usurper (Pushyamitra - a Brahman and native (possibly king) of Sunga in the South)  persecuted Buddhists so that the Greeks could pose as "liberators".

Edited April 17, 2015 by Pompieus

[Onasander]

There is a tradition, but its modern and second hand, and that library is several timezones away and halfway across an ocean for a consultation. Most of my research on this subject was based in Hawaii, the island has a lot of histories related to early Buddhism and east Asian studies, but also occasionally South Asian. San Francisco had more histories, but they focused on later empires. All my area has is some ISKCON publications floating around, and they are.... not up to snuff. My town also started a Sikh cultural center/authority with a recent publication, but they came much later, and our only Arab historian left for Miami. It feels like the dark ages here in West Virginia, and the web likes to only hint at texts, but doesn't give translations.

 

I'm almost certainly the first to get translations of certain kinds of knowledge ever around here.

 

I really want a translation of the Sri Lankan Buddhist texts. I have a background in several schools of Buddhism, so navigating the logic and philosophy shouldn't be too difficult, guessing their a Theraveda sect.

 

Hmmm.... I think the Vietnamese are too. There is a monastery out west, I'll try contacting them. I know a rather nutty Texan who goes there a lot. He hit a Chinese girl on a imported chinese scooter a while back, which is ironic, given this was in the Texan countryside. His name is Mayflow or something like that.