Urine Tax built the Colusseum?

[Onasander]

http://ancientstandard.com/2007/06/04/at-least-you-don%E2%80%99t-pay-urine-tax%E2%80%A6-1st-c-ad/

 

So....

 

Issues here...... I thought Nero had a huge statue of himself there, and I assumed he came prior ......

 

How was the stadium funded and built? From the chunks tourists here have broken off of it, it looks like red clay to me.

 

 

Dont seem that expensive raw material wise.

[caldrail]

Nero is often associated with the Colosseum but as rightly observed, he had nothing to do with it - that arena was built after he'd gone.

 

Urine Tax was an additional source of income for the Roman state. Established taxes, trade tariffs, booty from the Jewish War, and personal investment paid for the construction of the Flavian Amphitheatre (the correct name for the Colosseum).. Much of it was built with tufa, a soft stone, and concrete. originally the Hypogaeum (the basement level) was empty and intended to be flooded for water based spectaculars. The aqueducts for filling and draining the hypogaeum have been identified. Temporary wooden floors could be erected quickly to stage other forms of entertainment. Hpwever, research has shown that a small section of the wall was not completed with waterproof concrete and I suspect they had problems. In any event, the hypogaeum was converted to use as a holding area and elevators were fitted so props or contestants/animals could appear quickly.

[Onasander]

So.... Christians were NOT being killed in it durjng Nero's reign, because it did not exist yet?

[Maladict]

The Colosseum was invented by the Flavians (sorry, couldn't resist).

But yes, in fact the area where it stands used to be part of Nero's palace complex.

 

And incidentally, I don't believe there's any evidence for Christians being killed in the Colosseum. Except maybe the one who was set upon by the crowd for wanting to stop the games.

[Onasander]

Never looked into this. I know about the ventilation system, and basics about the kinds of games.... never much was that interested in it in and of itself, not a big sports guy to begin with. 

 

So the giant statue of Nero was over his own palace? That's tacky. Reminds me of the big pictures of Marx in North Korean Squares. 

 

Welcome to Nero Town.

[Virgil61]

No one's mention Vespasian's quip [via Suetonius] to Titus when he complained about the urinal tax yet?

 

To paraphrase, Vespasian; "Do these coins stink son?."

Titus: "Um, uh no."

V; "Well they came from p***."

Edited December 9, 2013 by Virgil61

[Onasander]

It's a very good counter to academic assertions as to the nature of Cynicism in regards to money....

 

It was rarely money persay but individual association in terms of ludricious behavior in seeking money that drove the Cynics. At least three from Pontus alone were currency speculators or the slave of currency speculators, Diogenes being one of them.... quite a few were known for pestering royalty relentlessly for a talent, one for years. 

 

I think the tax was very wise. It drove up taxes on the upper and middle class alone, and the resource gathering was rather simple.

 

The problem becomes, why wasn't it enough?

 

 

 

If you can build a stadium..... why can't you fund more essential functions of a state if a state is necessary at all? And did they money supply every dry up, and why? The flow of the liquid yellow gold sure didn't peter out first before it's tax revenue. I know medieval Florence made cash off it for its wool industry.

 

What becomes of this free, certain flow of money we become dependent on? It should be like the Athenians finding the silver vein..... but everyday. Money Money Money..... but Roman Armies deteriorated, the cities crumbled, men lived and died in filth and ignorance.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Onasander

[Onasander]

Purely by coincidence, I was researching a sufi saint and found this: http://www.sevenpillarshouse.org/article/sarmad_the_cheerful_naked_martyr

The Cynic Movement remained strong in Persia after is went away in the west.

[caldrail]

 

So.... Christians were NOT being killed in it durjng Nero's reign, because it did not exist yet?

officially no, at least not as a distinct group, but occaisionally a condemned man might have been a christian by coincidence. I have wondered what the situation with gladiators might be. Such fighters were professionals who swore an oath - "He vows to endure to be burned, to be bound, to be beaten, and to be killed by the sword." (Petronius) if they disobeyed, yet the shedding of blood was technically banned for christians, hence volunteering would seem unlikely - but then, desperation was a as much a factor in volunteering as fame and fortune. Of course, if a slave was sold to a lanista who happened to be a christian.... But we have no evidence for this.

[Onasander]

I doubt any Christians owned gladiators, the bishop would quickly beat sanity into any such fool, it's a rite of the wrong religion.

 

Christians can shed blood.... turning the other cheek wasn't a prohibition against military service or self defence. Just you get kudos for not killing or shedding blood needlessly. Even then..... there are examples that are unfortunately tolerated by the living, though I doubt by God. Blinding a whole army for example, or impaling a army on stakes..... not good. 

[Onasander]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Nero

 

Didnt know it really was called the Flavian Amphitheater....

 

And the Circus Maximus was built from the plundering from the Jewish Revolt.

 

Right now, Gilius is an old Asian man stroking his Fu Manchu goatee on a hill, laughing at us.....

 

The Flavians were up to something here.

[caldrail]

Interestingly however christians were known to be slave owners just as much as pagans, and certainly attended the games acording to their personal tastes in entertainment. Note that not all pagans saw munera as a thrilling day out - Anecdotes draw attention to the goriness of it all, the dreadful behaviour of women in the audience, and the enthrallment of a man turned from a sensible citizen into a helpless crowd member, yelling, gambling, enthralled by other peoples suffering.

[Virgil61]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Nero

 

Didnt know it really was called the Flavian Amphitheater....

 

And the Circus Maximus was built from the plundering from the Jewish Revolt.

 

Right now, Gilius is an old Asian man stroking his Fu Manchu goatee on a hill, laughing at us.....

 

The Flavians were up to something here.

 

I have to admit I laughed and thought of the Chewbacca Defense being used as historical analysis when I saw this.

 

1. A public building was named after an emperor's family.

2. Loot from a subject people used to build a another public building.

 

Hence, the Flavians invented Christianity.

[caldrail]

What? As an excuse to throw them to the lions?

 

As it happens the Flavian Amphitheatre has statues of classical significance, not christian, and was used to perform pagan rites - ie, the munera, (funeral games). Thankfully we therefore cannot include the Flavian Amphitheatre as evidence of Flavian Christianity.