Egypt Museum uncertainty

[caesar novus]

An update on the chaotic fate of Egyptian antiquities also has some hopeful notes:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-39-antiquities-fall-victim-political-chaos-073640237.html

 

I'm glad to see they are trying to spread out the Cairo collection to an adjacent building as well as one across the Nile. Precious mementos of the past need dispersion to protect them from disasters, and also to make easier for educational exposure across the globe. Remember how the Cairo museum was damaged due to riots a few years ago.

 

I assume the museums of the world have halted their overeager repatriation activities of sending their Egyptian artifacts back to Egypt. More than just for clearly stolen articles, many curators of the west tried to fly their progressive flags by emptying out their collections to the shaky stewardship of Egypt, Greece, and Italy. I remember the Egyptian archeology official often on documentaries tended to bully foreign museums... was he the one fired in 2011?

 

The root cause of the recent chaos in Egypt isn't fairly covered in the west. As I understand it, it wasn't second thoughts about a fairly elected leader. Rather it was the hijacking of their constitution by a fringe element who had squeeked by an election. I recall being outraged by our president O. throwing his support to the Islamic extremist now overthrown... there was a centrist candidate at the time who actually quoted Thomas Jefferson, and originally had a lot of support, partly because he seemed a safe bet in keeping the $billions of US aid flowing.

[Onasander]

My friend dissapeared in Egypt a few years ago. I told him nothing was going to come of the revolution, and get the he'll out now, buy some arm floaties and swim to Turkish Cyprus. 

 

Last I heard, he was joining in a March (just after Israel's embassy was sacked) on Gaza, but he was a Atheist, heavily closeted, but a Atheist none the less.

 

Just disseapeared. 

 

Egypt has always been a crazy despotism. The same fanaticism that caused them to kill people who harmed cats back in Pagan Times is still at play. The Sun is really, really hot, and someone is to blame for that, and they won't stop the mayhem till they find them. 

 

It's going to take decades to democritize them. It took Taiwan and South Korea a really long time, they were military dictatorships for decade receiving aid from the US in a very slow convergent pattern towards democracy. In South Vietnam, we pushed it way too quick, in Egypt, we were going at the right pace..... just the whole Arab Spring ducked that goat. You end up with an oddity of a very liberal, almost westernized military (that is unable to perform simple combined arm maneuvers) that is reacting to an ideal of democracy, without it actually being there. The military is more developed than the civil.

 

When you allow the military development to dominate, and disregard civil democratization, you end up with grotesque oddities, like the Empire of Central Africa. For countries at realistic risk of social friction and foreign invasion, you are even worst off, as people will confuse a steady, responsible growth into democracy with Socialism and Equality. Such societies will grow slower, will remain intellectually weaker, and will eventually have to give up control to others, and once that happens, it's down hill from there on out.

 

It's better to focus on security first, then democracy, but never a foolish absolute towards an either or. Both needs brought up from infancy together.

 

In Egypt, thankfully it has the chance to rebound. However, this is a important time to check the ambitions of another military dictatorship. The government Egypt elected was moronic, but at the same time, Egyptians didn't quite grasp what democracy really was. I say, play the two off on each other, while restraining outright military brutality using the US' leverage on the Egyptian military. Where responsible, stable power sharing is possible, seek it out.

 

Wait till the next election, and make sure everyone feels the pain of not thinking a election out. 

 

It's going to be a very, very long time before Egypt gets it's act together. Having Obama making every wrong, shitheaded move possible isnt helping much, but it's not beyond salvage. 

 

It took the US a long time to stabilize Europe. It will take longer for these countries. 

[Onasander]

Just found this on today's news:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/05/mummy-mystery-multiple-tombs-hidden-in-egypt-valley-kings/?intcmp=features

[Virgil61]

An update on the chaotic fate of Egyptian antiquities also has some hopeful notes:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-39-antiquities-fall-victim-political-chaos-073640237.html

 

I'm glad to see they are trying to spread out the Cairo collection to an adjacent building as well as one across the Nile. Precious mementos of the past need dispersion to protect them from disasters, and also to make easier for educational exposure across the globe. Remember how the Cairo museum was damaged due to riots a few years ago.

 

I assume the museums of the world have halted their overeager repatriation activities of sending their Egyptian artifacts back to Egypt. More than just for clearly stolen articles, many curators of the west tried to fly their progressive flags by emptying out their collections to the shaky stewardship of Egypt, Greece, and Italy. I remember the Egyptian archeology official often on documentaries tended to bully foreign museums... was he the one fired in 2011?

 

The root cause of the recent chaos in Egypt isn't fairly covered in the west. As I understand it, it wasn't second thoughts about a fairly elected leader. Rather it was the hijacking of their constitution by a fringe element who had squeeked by an election. I recall being outraged by our president O. throwing his support to the Islamic extremist now overthrown... there was a centrist candidate at the time who actually quoted Thomas Jefferson, and originally had a lot of support, partly because he seemed a safe bet in keeping the $billions of US aid flowing.

 

The official was Zahi Hawass. You'd recognize him if you saw any specials on the History channel (when it was about history). He ruled the Egyptian history/archaeology sector like a dictator. He'd all but bar archaeologists or historians who disagreed with his take on things. Good riddance. As for the collections I have no problems returning them, it belongs to the Egyptians in the end.

 

I've worked in Cairo on a couple of occasions. Two things strike struck me; the number of tourists--in the tens of thousands at any one time & from all over the world and second the number of Egyptians who make their living in some way connected to tourism. At all times I felt relatively safe, I mean there were thousands and thousands of Russians, Brits, Germans, Japanese, etc walking around at that time.

 

The Egyptian economy is something like $250 billion now, US aid is a pittance of the % it once was. A billion $ 20 years ago was a club, now it's a small stick.

 

There was no good way to deal with the uprising. We support democracy, that's our 'thing'. I've done a few target audience studies in the ME and had we openly backed x, y or z it wouldn't have helped that candidate, probably the opposite. We're damned if we supported a regime w/the Muslim Brotherhood and we're damned if we support a military coup. It's a no-win crap-sandwich, Bush & Co. wouldn't have done any better. Armchair quarterbacking leaves me cold.

[caesar novus]

I'm listening to Paul Theroux's "Dark Star" travels thru Egypt, etc. His (always) negative impressions echoed my own experience long ago. A big bank had only nonworking ink pens set out, and a teller very sneakily stole my own. Cold blooded gratuitous cruelty to coptic or gypsy trash pickers. Jewish American tourists stopping over on the way to Israel treating the sites with comtempt... we on group tours wasted half our time waiting for them to no-show, and eventually our guide abandoned all of us.

 

Oh, there was the nice time a felucca captain overheard me expounding on sailing and gave me the helm. Then he "fires" me due to not realizing you have to point absurdly high into the wind since they don't have daggerboards or whatever to reduce slippage.

 

Their economy is very unfair because they don't have the basic legal infrastructure for a free market system to function on. Unable to get land titles for their homes and biz for example, corruption, etc.

Edited December 6, 2013 by caesar novus

[Onasander]

I agree 100% with Virgil, backing any candidate is a bad idea. It didn't work well in Taiwan or Korea either. You gotta build the civil sector first, use servant leadership to pick out who is the intuitive leaders and managers are, and essentially let them take the reins from you.

 

It's a very good thing for cliques within a protectorate (which Egypt essentially was) to think they are capable of democracy, and know better about their own affairs than some group of foreigners. Just as long as the civil aspect of society are developed enough to control the military. It's not quite there in Egypt. 

 

I'm not interested in a repeat of the Madhi War, or Pharoah 4.0..... and don't see much evidence they want that either.

 

We have the corner military wise..... just gotta keep them restrained till the civil aspects catch up. 

[Onasander]

Has anyone heard about St. Catherine's Monastery?

 

I remember hearing it was closed (to tourists or completely I dont know).

 

Im a little worry about it, given the smuggler Bedouins and drug cartels pretty much have independant range of movement between Sinai and Jordan. I cant find reliable data on how porous it actually is up to Syria.... just know Jordan isnt able to do much west right now, and Egypt isnt doing anything beyond a few show patrols.

 

St. Catherine has the second largest library from Antiquity in the west, second only to the vatican.