What have the Romans ever done for us?

[GhostOfClayton]

I've just about wrung all the cash I can out of my current batch of presentations (thanks to UNRV members for the Top Ten Roman Atrocities, by the way, it has been going down a storm), so I've turned my mind to coming up with another.  I suppose the clue is in the title of this thread.

 

I know we did a thread many years ago on the same subject, but if I'm honest, I can't seem to find it; and a lot of water has flown under the bridge since then, and we have a lot of new blood with refreshing and interesting perspectives.  That thread (do post a URL if you stumble upon it) examined all the different things the Romans are reputed to have introduced, concluding that they didn't actually bring that much to the table.  Mostly they just distributed existing technologies.

 

Anyway, let's give the question another outing, shall we.  I'm looking for things that fall broadly into two categories:

 

1.  Things the Romans actually did for us

2.  Things we think the Romans did for us, but somebody else did it, and the Romans only brought it to the party.

 

Ready?  Go for it.

[Number Six]

Law and christianity (whether we think they're good or bad stuff).

The modern concept of law is profoundly Roman, although Common Law had an evolution of its own.

Christianity is pretty much a Roman phenomenon, but not in the way the guy thinks in the other topic about Jesus Caesar.

 

Beside this, they brought us a lot of stuff from ancient Greece: mainly an idea of literature, an idea of philosophy and an idea of science. But those ideas were elaborated (in the way we still hold them, which isn't always the same as 5th century BC Athens') during the pre-Roman hellenistic era; Rome only continued it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Number Six

[Artimi]

The idea of universal citizenship which the Greeks would have been appalled at.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Artimi

[Number Six]

I would have ranked universal citizenship among the things that were invented by Greeks during the Hellenistic era and only continued by Romans, for that's how it went. But I admit that the Greek nation overall remained quite elitarian and indeed the idea mostly rooted thanks to contributions from the outside.

[Artimi]

Wasn't citizenship in Greece restricted to a select number of men born within each city. Unless you were born in the city, you were not a citizen.

[caesar novus]

On 11/16/2013 at 8:58 AM, GhostOfClayton said:

That thread (do post a URL if you stumble upon it) examined all the different things the Romans are reputed to have introduced, concluding that they didn't actually bring that much to the table.  Mostly they just distributed existing technologies.

.

I saw a long sentence about that recently. I think in an external article, but possibly linked to from here (maybe even by me). Anyway it listed a number of things not invented by Rome, like togas, and who originated them, like Etruscans. Maybe roman numerals... weren't they originated elsewhere?

 

Anyway, I wasn't terribly impressed by that theme, somewhat like how guns originate from China. Those early guns were highly ineffective except for making the best out of soldiers too clumsy to shoot arrows, and had to be reinvented in the west. Or take the example of the C-47 cargo airplane... it borrowed all it's innovations, but using them in combination and appropriate balance made it a revolutionary item in itself and perhaps the most long used aircraft.

[Number Six]

Wasn't citizenship in Greece restricted to a select number of men born within each city. Unless you were born in the city, you were not a citizen.

 

Yeah, but the idea of universal citizenship comes from stoicism, that's what I was referring to, not to the plain legal fact. The Roman empire and its universal claim had stoic foundations.

[Onasander]

You did NOT get automatic citizenship by being born in a Greek City, you got it from having parents with citizenship rights, or having it bestowed on you.

 

The Ancient Greeks, much like Liberals in America, are very tolerant and egalitarian, so long as your in their clique, and believe in everything they do. Everyone else can F off and die, or become a menial slave. 

 

Romans gave us the Strategic Reserve, a priori fortifications, self sufficient infantry operations ( Mar ius Mules), trained battlefield surgeons, The Who're-Madonna Paradox, corps of engineers, Professional NO O corps, industrial scale factories, Monks, division of power, martyrdom, mystery cults...... I'm stopping here.

 

The Stoics didn't invent universal citizenship, Cosmopolitan was a Cynic concept pushed in Diogenes' work of statecraft countering Plato's republic. Stoics came around after Alexander's empire fragmented. 

[Number Six]

Yeah, I didn't mean that it was invented by stoics, just that Rome took it from stoicism (and with its features).

I'm well aware that the 'invention' of cosmopolitanism traces back to the crisis of the polis.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Number Six

[Onasander]

http://books.google.com/books?id=ybYGAPqkyh8C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=diogenes+cynic+politeia&source=bl&ots=4HI78SBWJs&sig=VjqlegKondLFSOX7z28kjvPa9cI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3zWIUsX-L5PJ4AOz5oB4&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAQ

[Onasander]

For those who insist on citizenship arising from your city of birth, google Nothoi or Nothos.

[GhostOfClayton]

An interesting resource: try looking up the following on Wikipedia (no URL I'm afraid. I only use the mobile app):

Legacy of the Roman Empire

[GhostOfClayton]

This is good too:

 

http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/year7links/doneforuse.html

[Onasander]

How are you making money off this? This stuff is silly....

 

Are you aware that in philosophy, there are several complex schools of thought that tackles the concept of technology, it's effects on cognition, law, and values? If you're somehow making money telling people about this stuff, besides the quizzative idle chat of this forum..... you really should jump into the veneer of a more advance theory, and eludicate and expound on it from a platform more complex and meaningful than Top Ten Lists.

 

A top ten list is perfectly okay for a website chit chat, but not for academic exercises that reel in money, as it only adds to the dumbing down trends.

 

I tend to dislike academics, but grit my teeth less when they are penetrating, far reaching, and make their works affordable.

[GhostOfClayton]

I give talks to various societies - there are loads of them and they're always looking for speakers. They don't pay much, but every little helps during the quiet season. They really aren't after a dry, academic lecture, and the best way to educate is to entertain. I can assure you though that dumming down isn't on my radar. Make em laugh and make em think. Then they ask you back again.