What made Hoplite Warfare so terrifying that seperates it from regular

[Pisces Axxxxx]

I'm reading "The Spartans' by Cartledge and in the book he states:

P.67
"Hoplite fighting was a particularly ferocious and demanding kind of face-to-face, hand-to-hand warfare, truly terrifying unless the soldiers had been trained physically and mentally in the rigorous Spartan way."

I'm curious why is Hoplite warfare so terrifying compared to most other melees?I mean other armies in other time period throughout history from the Celts to the Romans have been in bloody melees that were far more chaotic than the Phalanx warfare of the Ancient Greece!If anything IMO melees in the Middle Ages would have been much more terrifying wit the advent of elite heavy cavalry (Knights) and range weapons that truly can pierce through even plate armor (English Longbow)!

[Onasander]

Not much of a melee going on in phalanx on phalanx warfare, your stuck where you are, trying to poke a guy hiding behind a shield while he pokes at you, in a skirt, and with a broom on your helmet, like it was carnival.

 

It occurred to me, it's all a rather disturbing homo erotic, sado masochistic way to go. If you don't understand, read the book.'Mishima's Sword'...... which documents the Japanese philosophers deep fascination with St. Sebastian's death by execution. Most guys who look at a picture of St. Sebastian's execution don't ejaculate, but he did..... and he became sexually transfixed on it, and got into the Japanese gay BDSM with Japanese Samurapractices like Hari Kari, the battlefield suicide. He was so into it, he lead a coup a few decades back against the Japanese government by taking over a generals office, taking him hostage, and then immediately gave up (was preplanned), digging his sword in his abdomen, while his buddy failed several times to chop his head off (apparently not that easy to do). The whole time, the general was begging him not to do that..... I mean, it was the most perverted and ineffective coup in world history. He even wore the white michael jackson gloves for it.....

 

So, I can do in a queer voice a psuedo-Freudian analysis of it, metrosexually dressed soldiers in skirts, holding testical shaped shields, and long spears to thrust into the enemy.... in formations who esprite de corps was built by homosexual ties......

 

Im sorry, the ancient greeks were supergay, and the battles were gay pride parades that everyone had deathgasms in. Its only horrifying if your straight.

 

It made actually no sense to fight that way in ancient greece, trojan war showed a city could hold out for ten years, the spartans sucked fighting missle troops, and the mountains dominate greece, favoring guerrilla warfare (especially ambushes) and naval masterstrokes. Instead, they made it the exact opposite, and made it as gay as possible, many units actually mandating man on man sex for bonding the unit together.

 

It was all just one big, homoerotic death orgy. They all probably wore michael jackson gloves too.

[Number Six]

I answer the OP, for I just noticed this thread with its latest reply.

 

Well, I think you're asking the wrong question if you wonder why would the hoplite warfare be more terrifying than others. The right question is: what information is your quoted author trying to convey?

 

If I read those two lines correctly (although they should be read within context), your author is thinking of something that was unique to the hoplite warfare and that made it psychologically demanding. The thing with hoplite warfare is that each and every hoplite had very little control over their own choices; the phalanx was strong as long as it acted as a whole, in a way that is common to any military action, but that was particularly enchanced in the phalanx: hell, you couldn't either protect yourself entirely with your own shield, it was the soldier to your right that protected you, while your shield would party cover the mate to the left. When the phalanx clanged with another unit, there was no way to go: you had to stand steady, hoping the mate to your right was as steady as you, while pressing the enemy front line and being pressed between the enemy and your own mates.

 

So, the hoplite warfare was indeed terrifying, because it was a long, exhausting face to face that also suppressed your individuality, leaving you with the responsibility for the entire unit and the need for their perfect execution. Outside of this was death.

So your author is just trying to say this: since you needed to rely on others to this extreme extent and as much as others needed to rely on you, you couldn't be a hoplite without an arduous mental and physical training.

It doesn't mean it's more terrifying than any other warfare, but sure it must have been quite terrible.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Number Six

[Onasander]

I don't know actually how exhausting, minus the sun and dehydration.....

 

I'll be perfectly honest with you, I'ld cheat. Balance my shield on a rock or limb, or commit the sacrilege of resting my shield on the ground (just the bottom of it) while the people infront of me orgasm to death for a few hours until it's my turn. Make a deal with the guy behind me to let me take a knee and aim below the enemy's shields as he strikes at the helmets.

 

My shield would have a two foot long stick to prop it up with, and my spear would have a balancing shouldering strap. I would be a very lazy yet rested hoplite soldier, and would be cussed out all the time by the leadership for being such a negative influence...... saying not to listen to Onasander, that a real man is eager to clash shields and make mansweat, grunting and poking spears into other scantily dressed men, dying in homoerotic deaththrows..... following my dishonorable habits of chucking every damn rock on the ground at the enemy while waiting my turn or pelting bags of sheep intestines filled with my urine that I filled while waiting is dishonorable...... but that is just who I am.

 

The infantry have all sorts of lazy tricks, both modern and ancient that are not talked about, because guys like forum member Virgil suppresses it (he used to be a first sargeant) while guys like me of a lower rank would whisper little tricks into your ear when I see you sucking.

 

Take the shield position of the hoplite in the right arm..... I bet you it could be hung at forearm level between the breastplate, and and strap for holding up the BDSM skirt the greeks and romans wore, or even a strap for holding water. We have similar optical illusions weighing our rifle on our ammo case instead of carrying via upper arm strength like a macho manly man. Having done it the badass way, I am now a advocate for the sneakest, laziest way forward that can keep me ready and at my best for success when the time actually comes.

 

Think about the quality of training most phalanx actually had, and how hot the sun was..... I am telling you, those guys cheated the rules left and right in a effort to survive, and after the battle and the mumble jumbo victory rights, returned back to the city pretending to be badasses to the young women and widows, while laughing at Demetrius the Plaster who threw his feces in the face of the enemy hoplight commander, or Diogenes the Carpenter who added pipe extentions to his spear, killing the enemy 4 ranks back, or cratylus the shephard who released his guard dogs on the enemy rear, etc.... a thousand and one silly dishonorable tricks they could mock, celebrate, berate, and chide one another with.... all the while the younger generation is stumbling around, learning the formations, working out and are being homosexually molested by some gung ho guy full of bull, felling the new guys a real man clashes his shield against the enemy shield, taking the enemy's thrusts honorably...... etc.

 

Every army has this sad, sick training dichotomy to it, and the historians like to preserve the speeches and orthodox doctrine..... not the naked man who ran between the lines before the battle belching. It might be the talk of the town, but no the historians. It's this dichotomy that kept the evolution of archers and dart throwers so long, a shithead with my outlook to innovation, ease, and success would of been a early adopter of the sword or bow in combat. The greek elite hated guys like me, but noted sneaky guys like me tryingtto push new dishonorable tech. And in the end, we won. Took a damn long time though.