Barbarian citizens

[caldrail]

Plain old chemistry has always existed - I could not disagree - however it has always been to cause of the illicit romance which has long predated the rather ridiculous medieval version. There was of course the story of a rich daughter who gave up a life of luxury to run away with her favourite gladiator, a man not blessed with good looks or health, but a Gladiator! We also know that women of high birth sometimes discreetly attended gladiator schools for that very reason, hoping to get a session (or maybe more) from her favourite arena hero.

 

Nonetheless at the higher echelons of society there's a definite trend toward expedience. Notice how, to use an extreme example, Cleopatra seduces Caesar and Antony, and even tried to see if she could get her claws into Octavian at one point. To her the realtionship, however much fun, was for practical purposes. She was a queen and needed the Romans to bolster her power inn Egypt on the edge of dynastic war.

 

Roman women on the whole weren't particularly well regarded in some aspects, being somewhat infantile by modern standards (and often deliberately encouraged to remain so). Some of course had a brain in their skull and we do have examples of women who did more with their lives or who had real influence - I'm thinking of one in Pompeii who after her husband died inherited his business, and contrary to normal tradition, ran it for herself. She was however planning a marriage, purely for appearances (or possibly to avoid difficuklties for her children).

[GhostOfClayton]

 I just want Frank to be a citizen if possible.<g>

 

I, for one, see no reason that you shouldn't just go ahead and make him a citizen, possibly by way of citizenship being granted in return for service to the empire, probably as a result of a bit of cash changing hands.  The prevailing opinion seems to be that this sort of thing was likely, even if we few on these pages can't come up with concrete documented precedent.

 

In short, historical accuracy is important in fiction, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[cinzia8]

Caldrail thanks for your insight.

 

It must have been difficult to have more than an infantile demeanor in a world ruled by men.  However, women have learned to use many other less assertive means to get what they want precisely because of a ruling order that treated them like they weren't equal or intelligent.  I also agree that you had female exceptions who did run a business or an estate because they had the determination or an evolved male partner.

 

Cleopatra is a great example of seductive manipulation to get the power she needed to survive and rule, but I think her preference (history portrays some lustful chemistry here) for Antony did not help her go very far--that risk again with a price. BTW was Cleopatra a citizen?  Sorry, I have this status on the brain now.

 

Also, why do you find the Medieval tale of Lancelot and Guinevere ridiculous? I'm curious The content?  Comrades (albeit King and Knight) in love with the same woman is not unusual.  Courtly love fostered the idea of a knight's devotion to his lady, which could also include his queen.  

[cinzia8]

 

 I just want Frank to be a citizen if possible.<g>

 

I, for one, see no reason that you shouldn't just go ahead and make him a citizen, possibly by way of citizenship being granted in return for service to the empire, probably as a result of a bit of cash changing hands.  The prevailing opinion seems to be that this sort of thing was likely, even if we few on these pages can't come up with concrete documented precedent.

 

In short, historical accuracy is important in fiction, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think this is an excellent idea. It is fiction. Will the history police arrest me if it's not quite spot on? :-) Also, your suggestion sounds plausible. Cash has always changed hands for favors. In my neck of the woods today in the state I live we have a term for our government "Pay to Play." This might not be a unique term, but it's one bandied about quite a bit here.  Luckily, in the story, Frank has done a service for the Empire. So, I will combine the two.  Her daddy (a senator) can be the vehicle for Frank's good fortune.

 

Just curious-- were gladiators granted citizenship?

[caldrail]

Not normally. Contract gladiators might already be citizens (albeit temporarily enslaved and rendered infama). Rudiarii (Gladiators given freedom) had the same status as freedmen but probably didn't on the whole benefit from patronage in the same way as other freedmen, and I note many such men tended to fail outside the arena and so often drifted back to the life they knew best. As such, full citizenship was beyond their grasp, although I have heard of a few examples of gladiators having citizenship confrered upon them as a gift.

[GhostOfClayton]

having citizenship confrered upon them as a gift.

Good phrase, Caldrail. You could use that for Frank, Cinzia.

[caldrail]

I ought to point out however that 5th century gladiators were outside the law and no longer a central part of Roman society. They still existed, especially in the provinces, usually as wandering troupes of lower quality. The former schools had closed.

[cinzia8]

That's so interesting about the status of 5th century gladiators.  Do you think a modern comparison might be our interest in English football (U.S. soccer) and for Americans, football, waning away in a hundred years? Thanks again for the help in this matter.

[GhostOfClayton]

I think Christianity didn't approve of gladiators.

[caldrail]

That was mostly the cause of it, as imunera had pagan religious connotations, and also was a show in which blood was spilt. However the arena was becoming less popular as a result of changes inn style, moving away from the expensive spectacles of the past and toward smaller more modest shows, not to mention to trend toward 'wounding' fights with bizarre weaponry rather than good clean sword fights. Others point at the loss of social purpose in that the games celebrated Roman martial spirit, which was distinctinly lacking in the late empire.

[cinzia8]

I came across this online but will check my textbook sources as well. [The Salians, who eventually became the Merovingians, were first mentioned by Ammianus Marcellinus, who described Julian's defeat of "the first Franks of all, those whom custom has called the Salians," in 358.^[18][19] He promoted them to the status of foederati within the Empire.^[20] The 5th century Notitia Dignitatum lists their soldiers as Salii. Jordanes, in Getica and mentions the Riparii as auxiliaries ofFlavius Aetius during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ch%C3%A2lons' title="Battle of Ch

[caldrail]

They had a limited form of citizenship. It was however prety much in name only as there was little they could do with their rights other than proclaim them.

[Miloslavius]

How to be Roman citizens in   the Slovak Republic today

Slovak law. Log in for Romana in Slovakia is very simple because identity papers don't ask for nationality. There are people from many countries around the world. The Constitution gives complete freedom.

Article 12 (3) Everyone has the right to freely decide his nationality. Any influence of this decision  is  prohibited and all methods of pressure  to loss of nationality.

Exact text ČL 12 (3) Každý má právo slobodne rozhodovať o svojejnárodnosti. Zakazuje sa akékoľvek ovplyvňovanie tohoto rozhodovania a všetky spôsoby nátlaku smerujúce k odnárodňovaniu.

Just login statistically once in 10 years at a statistical census, which is now under September 2021. You sit down to the computer, you specify your identification number and see the item in the appropriate section and you can write anything, for example, Civis Romanus Sum. All additional data are automatically searched for and stored in databases.

.Continuity with Roman law. The unquestionable form is to sign up as a new HEIR Roman Empire. Unable to log only to part of heritage. When examined, it is formally found that only citizenship remained from property.

Inheritance can be explored unlimited long, but acceptance or refusal can only be done once. Such a legal act will give you a hand with imperoom forever. Just verify your signature at a notary that records the content of the list.The Heritage Receipt Declaration cannot be revoked. Unlike civil law, this procedure is stronger.Roman citizen - Civis Romanus must comply with matrimonium iusum and to keep continuity with Roman law.

Above all, it is an Emperor Caracalla edict  The Constitutio Antoniniana or a minimum knowledge of Latin. Suitable school certificate with the subject of a Latin or material thing. The older Roman law [Civis Optimo Iure] had a variety of conditions that barely satisfied today. For example, citizens could only be Rome residents.Attention not to submit an archaeological object whose legal origin is  not confirm.

Thanks for reading.

The text was not verified by any translator.

Preklad Civis Romanus.pdf

Edited April 24, 2021 by Miloslavius