caesar novus Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 There will be a sunday booktalk broadcast on "rescue and protection of historic pieces of art in Italy during World War II": http://www.booktv.org/Program/14528/Saving+Italy+The+Race+to+Rescue+a+Nations+Treasures+From+the+Nazis.aspx . That link hopefully will include the video after the talk, or you can view live on TV or streaming. It mentions Roman art, but looks to be mostly on later art. This all brings to mind how some strange events prolonged the war in Italy and threatened more damage to cultural treasures. I may have this muddled, but I believe the general in charge (Clark) was widely considered incompetent. Normally at this stage these underperforming generals were replaced, but supposedly there was some sensitive issue like a marriage related to Eisenhower that made both British and Americans reluctant to criticize Clark to him. Furthermore the most fast acting general (Patton) had been removed from the Italian front due to publicity about him slapping a couple troops. I do hear we should expect a reassessment of Eisenhower due to some colleague supporters dying off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) OK, the video showed up at the above site and is pretty darn good. Showed quite good graphics (photos/film clips) in contrast to the usual cspan bias of sticking to the talking head. Since it is kind of long, I will map out roughly what to expect. 10 min: Intro to the ww2 allied invasion of Italy, with unprecedented inclusion of art monument rescue officers 30 min: The dramatic give and take of war damage and looting at various sites, with protection efforts by both sides. 20 min: Tribute to the US officers involved (and 1 Brit) 20 min: How we lacked this effort in recent conflicts, how we are reviving it, and how we can help ID looted items. The portion on Roman monuments was quite brief (probably more in his book). The Italians had moved Pompeii and Herc. exhibits from Museum of Naples to the famous Monte Cassino abbey. Before it was bombed, the Germans actually relocated them to Rome with great fanfare. But the Italians found the crates had been somewhat cherry-picked. Not sure how much was eventually repatriated... is this why that museum still seems somewhat bare? They flashed a slide showing an inventory by the German director of looting, Alfred Rosenberg. I had just today noticed his diary was recovered after being stolen by a rogue prosecutor (shame on him) http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/long-lost-diary-adolf-hitler-confidant-found-article-1.1367908 . I furthermore just read Rosenberg's short discussions with the psychologist before being hung at Nuremburg... it wasn't the usual claims of innocence, but a chilling riff about us being no less evil than them. I am about to read Kesselring's longer talk with the psychologist, who also seems brazen. He must have inflicted the most damage to Italy, with even HItler and the SS trying to reduce his vandalizing of Tuscany. There is a website for getting more involved (even now Syrian tanks are grinding down Roman buildings and shooting down columns in order to deny cover to rebels) at http://www.monumentsmenfoundation.org/ . I wish the current Italian monuments department could take a lesson from the damage of Pisa frescos by a shell falling short. On a shoestring of resources during wartime, US army engineers mobilized ways of protecting them from rain and housing/feeding a team of restorers who labor to this day. The old photos of war damage look very like the neglected areas of Pompeii, Herculeum, and Tivoli today... with staff having a reported 70% absentee rate. Edited June 11, 2013 by caesar novus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I saw the program, too. Very interesting and one can only wonder how much of history has been lost forever from the devastation of war. Hopefully, the Ancient Roman city of Palmyra in Syria won't be destroyed. The fascinating history of the Eastern princess Zenobia has already been obscured by the mists of time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenobia guy also known as gaius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Well, they did show a slide with a tank grinding over what appeared to be something like Palmyra. I assume it was on the side of the once great liberal hope, the euro-educated dentist who was supposed to transform the tyranny after replacing his father. A modern Caligula? Anyway, I did review the psychologist discussion with Kesselring... quite unenlightening, as is the whole book of "Nuremburg Interviews"... full of self-proclaimed eagle scouts. He said he tried to avoid towns with art treasures, and had no knowledge of looting except one statue by Goering. Anything bad he did was justified by the terrible circumstances... oh, wait a minute, now he says he did nothing bad. He wasn't actually on trial there, but was a witness. I have a selfish wish that mainland Italy was bypassed in the war. Not so unlikely... when they said the monuments officers were prevented from looking up Sicily in the library, it was for a justified security reason. The attack was pretending to be a pincer on either side of Italy... thru Sardinia and Croatia. A body was floated out with fake battle plans to that effect, which was plausible enough to be believed. Then the allies would have gotten strategic air bases, with only Diocletians palace at risk for Romanophiles. As it was, I wonder what was lost in Sicily only because the monuments men had no clue what was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 no knowledge of looting except one statue by Goering. I know I am beating this to death, but ran across Goering's response to that charge to the same psychologist. He said he did pay (a nominal fee) for the art taken by Rosenberg's or Goering's representatives. It was intended to be protected from opposing armies, and donated to a museum after his death. Well, he just liked the stuff too. He said he liked to mentally review his art collections and favorite parties when in long court sessions behind dark glasses. This backfired when was criticized for having blissful expressions when they were reviewing atrocities. By the way, he mentioned he personally halted plans to invade Sweden due to his ties of marriage to a Swedish baroness. We can suspect this is self serving, but it was spoken after his defense had formally ended and when he already expected the death penalty. It is from the notes of a doctor who died before publishing them and only recently went into book form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted June 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Above art program is being repeated on cspan tv this weekend http://www.booktv.org/Schedule.aspx . I partly mention it because another Roman related book talk by an author is being rebroadcast several times this weekend: Victor Davis Hanson, "The Savior Generals: How Five Commanders Saved Wars that Were Lost - From Ancient Greece to Iraq," . I think I mentioned the latter on the temporary version of this forum, but I noticed that one doesn't seem to have an online video... so it has to be seen in real time. I guess you can stream it if you convert the EDT timezone. It briefly covers a very late general of the east to represent the most notable of Rome, rather than more familiar ones. Also worthwhile to see his surprising and well argued heros proposed for US civil war and Korean war. Edited June 28, 2013 by caesar novus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted November 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Well, this is a stretch from the topic, but hard to know where it belongs. Just hitting the news recently is a billion euro art stash find in Munich, although it was found somewhat earlier. Various news sources call it Nazi loot, but it may be a category buster... in a way it seems to have been looted from Nazi museums by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrand_Gurlitt who was hired by them to sell it ("degenerate art"). His son has been found in possession of the art, which his (part jewish) father had claimed was burned in the Dresden raid. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/11/05/243221372/nazi-art-trove-includes-previously-unknown-matisse-chagall-works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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